Mini cycle

[alicia24]

The one in the pic looks like a finger leather. Lots of these coral can sulk for a while, then shed a mucous layer, then be right as rain again.

Oh! Ok great thanks!

 

[brandon429]

the safety concern window for your particular tank transfer challenge/moved all waste over/was 24 hours.

if it was going to die from toxins, or ammonia in the sand like so much shale oil (that's what critics believe here) it would have been in the first day.

you simply cannot have an ammonia issue two days ago, or today, or next week. those tank pics will look the same, and nothing the critics have warned is panning out, we can all see it plainly.

taking no action is your wisest move, says the big giant work thread with 100% safe outcomes. maybe lower your lighting a little/late is better than never.

simply focusing on tank pics is how to keep arguments at bay. I realize that after 3 more months and the exact same pics on file, they're still going to say your ammonia was bad/at risk, I know they will never relent (giving advice from the stands is really easy, running work threads isn't)

but in the end, those pics are either going to show a running reef or they aren't.

 

[alicia24]

the safety concern window for your particular tank transfer challenge/moved all waste over/was 24 hours.

if it was going to die from toxins, or ammonia in the sand like so much shale oil (that's what critics believe here) it would have been in the first day.

you simply cannot have an ammonia issue two days ago, or today, or next week. those tank pics will look the same, and nothing the critics have warned is panning out, we can all see it plainly.

taking no action is your wisest move, says the big giant work thread with 100% safe outcomes. maybe lower your lighting a little/late is better than never.

Ok thank you!! Why do you think the ammonia level is rising on the hanna test?? & I'm sorry if you explained that already I might not have understood.

 

[alicia24]

yes don't remove it. we always lower the light levels in tank transfers, that's why we have no bleaching events, so with these lights being the same as before that's not an acclimation surprise. Don't judge anything from what toadstools do: they close up sometimes for days or weeks to shed tunic material, then are out strong. don't throw it out until it falls off the base; it easily might come back. move it down a little if it's high up: bleach burns during transfers are a real risk, that's why we stopped using full light in the transfer thread.

in no way can trace ammonia harm anything in your system, for reasons we've discussed completely. the rest of this thread will be critics painting fear and testing reaction into your reefing habits, preventing you from understanding updated cycling science for the likely entirety of your reefing career, they're bent on it apparently, but any tank pic you post will be that of a normal-running reef. if you had bad water, none of those anemones would be open.

I have nearly all writers here who never do work threads but are quick to critique running work threads on block; troll noise never helps me complete any job.

so each week till the matter dies, if you'll just put in one simple tank pic, the threads I'm linking this thread to can see how well the umpiring works between new/confident cycling science and old/constantly in fear cycling science. It's important readers be able to tie in warnings, or assurances here, to actually what we see the tank doing. only those pics provide an anchor the wildly varying status claims here.

if you put down that ammonia test kit, and never run it on your tank again, the anxiety level will slowly decrease once you see ten weeks go by and the tank simply runs normal day to day.

If I put a kenya tree coral into my reef right now it won't last long, it'll be dead by July. for some reason, my tank can't keep them. it wouldn't mean my cycle is broken due to what one coral does. looks at the tank as a whole; all those open corals, if you add fish they'll live, that's cycled.

OK thanks! I can post a weekly tank pic no problem!

 

[Garf]

Ok thank you!! Why do you think the ammonia level is rising on the hanna test?? & I'm sorry if you explained that already I might not have understood.

Here's a review from @taricha regarding the Hanna ammonia checker.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...hemistry-and-performance.933667/post-10555645

 

[MnFish1]

Yes I will add some. Thanks! Can it come back from being bleached? There is some color in the center. Just looks horribly ugly all bleached like that

It can. Make sure its bleached rather than a 'naked skeleton'

 

[MnFish1]

the safety concern window for your particular tank transfer challenge/moved all waste over/was 24 hours.

if it was going to die from toxins, or ammonia in the sand like so much shale oil (that's what critics believe here) it would have been in the first day.

you simply cannot have an ammonia issue two days ago, or today, or next week. those tank pics will look the same, and nothing the critics have warned is panning out, we can all see it plainly.

taking no action is your wisest move, says the big giant work thread with 100% safe outcomes. maybe lower your lighting a little/late is better than never.

simply focusing on tank pics is how to keep arguments at bay. I realize that after 3 more months and the exact same pics on file, they're still going to say your ammonia was bad/at risk, I know they will never relent (giving advice from the stands is really easy, running work threads isn't)

but in the end, those pics are either going to show a running reef or they aren't.

This is incorrect. IMHO. In this situation every possibility should be tested for - and I would not rely on a forum to tell me what is going on with my tank (absent testing)

 

[alicia24]

It can. Make sure its bleached rather than a 'naked skeleton'

Thanks! It still has a ton of flesh its just mostly bleached

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/crazy-ammonia-spike.796492/
Read that whole thread it comes from my false ammonia stall example.

They reported 2.0 level ammonia, you reported .66 and this thread went into a tailspin

When people report an nh4 reading to me, it's not factored in my troubleshoot, I know they're dependent on testing to feel ok because that's all we've been taught. New cycling science has other ways to predict ammonia status.



Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one? Outcome differences? Did my advice change from this one?

This new example didn't even have a single tank change, nothing died. Nothing was stirred up

The test (or how they ran it, might not have prepped reagents correctly, kitchen lighting might be green leds, pick your adulterant) is what's wrong, not the cycle.

Isn't it true if betex simply wasn't running ammonia testing where known cycled rocks are in place, they'd have been much better off? All that arguing, like what we're seeing here, but the requested tank pics simply never changed.

I have maybe fifty more of those direct examples worked fully.

I've seen this case hundreds of times. The outcomes are always the same: nothings going to die.


The fact I've never had a single crash doesn't mean pH protected me for ten straight years of jobs, it meant predicting what ammonia does is simple if you use updated rules.

 

[Garf]

Read that whole thread

Ok, done that. Your review of it above is wrong. Seems like a weird choice for you to use as evidence.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/crazy-ammonia-spike.796492/
Read that whole thread it comes from my false ammonia stall example.

They reported 2.0 level ammonia, you reported .66 and this thread went into a tailspin

When people report an nh4 reading to me, it's not factored in my troubleshoot, I know they're dependent on testing to feel ok because that's all we've been taught. New cycling science has other ways to predict ammonia status.



Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one? Outcome differences? Did my advice change from this one?

This new example didn't even have a single tank change, nothing died. Nothing was stirred up

The test (or how they ran it, might not have prepped reagents correctly, kitchen lighting might be green leds, pick your adulterant) is what's wrong, not the cycle.

Isn't it true if betex simply wasn't running ammonia testing where known cycled rocks are in place, they'd have been much better off? All that arguing, like what we're seeing here, but the requested tank pics simply never changed.

I have maybe fifty more of those direct examples worked fully.

I've seen this case hundreds of times. The outcomes are always the same: nothings going to die.


The fact I've never had a single crash doesn't mean pH protected me for ten straight years of jobs, it meant predicting what ammonia does is simple if you use updated rules.

I'll just quote your whole statement here for editing surveyance, lol.

Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one?

Certainly can, it's you. Do I win a prize?

 

[Garf]

Read that whole thread

Ok, done that. Your review of it above is wrong. Seems like a weird choice for you to use as evidence.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/crazy-ammonia-spike.796492/
Read that whole thread it comes from my false ammonia stall example.

They reported 2.0 level ammonia, you reported .66 and this thread went into a tailspin

When people report an nh4 reading to me, it's not factored in my troubleshoot, I know they're dependent on testing to feel ok because that's all we've been taught. New cycling science has other ways to predict ammonia status.



Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one? Outcome differences? Did my advice change from this one?

This new example didn't even have a single tank change, nothing died. Nothing was stirred up

The test (or how they ran it, might not have prepped reagents correctly, kitchen lighting might be green leds, pick your adulterant) is what's wrong, not the cycle.

Isn't it true if betex simply wasn't running ammonia testing where known cycled rocks are in place, they'd have been much better off? All that arguing, like what we're seeing here, but the requested tank pics simply never changed.

I have maybe fifty more of those direct examples worked fully.

I've seen this case hundreds of times. The outcomes are always the same: nothings going to die.


The fact I've never had a single crash doesn't mean pH protected me for ten straight years of jobs, it meant predicting what ammonia does is simple if you use updated rules.

I'll just quote your whole statement here for editing surveyance, lol.

Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one?

Certainly can, it's you. Do I win a prize?

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/should-i-water-change-during-a-mini-cycle.1046303/#post-12426742
a twin thread to this one.

 

[Dburr1014]

Hello,
I bought a 120g used with sand and lots of rocks and tons of nems, and inverts a few days ago. I should have not reused the sand I'm realizing that now. Ammonia is 0.93 (hanna) nitrate 7.9 (hamna). I already had to do a massive water change about 60-70% because I couldnt transport all the water needed to fill the tank. I'm really trying to avoid more water changes for a little bit as that was quite a lot of work. Can I just dose prime and microbacter 7 and hopefully its just a mini cycle and resolves in a few days? I just dont want all the inverts to die. No fish in there right now. Thank you!

I didn't go thru all 4 pages but if the rock was kept wet, this tank will be complete by today or tomorrow. It doesn't take long for moving a tank with everything disturbed.

 

[alicia24]

I didn't go thru all 4 pages but if the rock was kept wet, this tank will be complete by today or tomorrow. It doesn't take long for moving a tank with everything disturbed.

Thanks! Yes it was all kept wet. Ok great..fingers crossed!

 

[Garf]

Thanks! Yes it was all kept wet. Ok great..fingers crossed!

You're doing a great job at separating the wheat from the chaff in this thread. You are gonna be grand, perhaps start a build thread?

 

[Dburr1014]

My story, non scientific, years ago when plenum style was fading and deep sand beds were on the rise.
I emptied one tank and dumped it all in another, sandbed and rocks, everything. Smell of rotting eggs in the black parts of the sand. It was so gross and I was pretty new to reefing
Fish and coral I kept in buckets.
I waited 2 days before the fish/coral went in the tank and all was good. I had zero ammonia in two days.
I predict 0 ammonia tomorrow when you test.

 

[BeanAnimal]

keep selling the system as pre crash. it's not going to crash, it's going to get an outbreak as a worst case. corals open, animals added stay alive: that means something as the weeks go by.

if your tank never looks different in pics than it does right now other than some dinos or algae, we can't then claim your cycle was broken now. something stark in the way the system carries bioload would have to change in order for a broken cycle to now be repaired.

can I get an updated full tank pic pls/

Nobody is selling anything, predicting a crash, talking about outbreaks or "broken cycles". Nobody is painting fear. There is no "new science" or "old science". This is all noise injected by you.

The OP moved stuff from one tank to another, including the sand. There is fauna die-off (for many reasons) and stirring of detritus that was trapped. There is a small ammonia spike as the nitrifying bacteria find a new balance. The free ammonia associated with the spike appears to be low enough that it will not be a problem. Stuff is a bit unhappy, as is to be expected. As long as the water chemistry is decent then the new equilibrium should come fairly quickly because this was an established system.

There is no need to make the situation any more complicated than that or attempt to impugn the credibility of anybody offering help here.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks! Yes it was all kept wet. Ok great..fingers crossed!

Don't forget to test your fresh salt water for a baseline. As others have indicated things should start to improve.

 

[brandon429]

where live rocks go, any claimed ammonia event that wasn't big enough to kill animals resolves in about 15 minutes, that's the rule. that is why all the outcomes are safe, always, in every case. it's not like she kept stirring the sand here for every day.

there was never a source in that tank for continued unprocessed ammonia beyond the massive command ability from that quality live rock. this tank here has rare quality old school coralline live rock, the fast ammonia resolver we ever needed in any cycle troubleshoot.

when a thread title is about an ammonia test reading, and not a loss of life, that's a signal Ive detected that old cycling science is in play. the thread will then turn into pages and reams of focus on the testing, reverification, battles back and forth while literally any time a pic is posted the tank is simply normal. the keeper will 1000% make purchases to resolve stress that old cycling science gave them. the doubt cycle continues

and, as an impact, 0% worry or planning is given to the reefer about to fully stock a new tank with fish any iota of disease preps. Old cycling science plants false fear in people for consequences we literally can't find, and omits the real things that kill fish in about 8 mos, if ten years of work threads from Jay's disease forum means anything.

that's right where we're at today. fully locked into cycling fear, ignoring mountains of proof to the counter, and not discussing disease whatsoever.

new cycling science: don't test for ammonia ever again on this reef as long as rocks stay wet. you need to aim all this energy + 5 days of self-directed learning in Jay's fish disease forum, you're about to violate fallow and QT as this tank is stocked, and when fish die by September-Dec, and you then take another test reading though I'm telling you not to, you will then be 100% convinced ammonia was the cause.

you will then do loop remedies for a non cause like this thread, buy more fish, and the cycle of loss will not stop until you stop testing for ammonia here and instead manage disease vectoring in the tank.

that's what's coming most likely.

 

[alicia24]

You're doing a great job at separating the wheat from the chaff in this thread. You are gonna be grand, perhaps start a build thread?

Awh thanks! Lol I'm trying to stay out of the debate and just take all the perspectives . I will consider that! Not sure where to do that but I'm sure I can find it on here lol