Closest LED to old VHO Super Actinics?

[TexasTodd]

Any recommendations on which LED supplement bar style comes the closes to the old VHO Super Actinic T8?

Dana, I saw this in another thread and thought maybe you've found some:

Here's spectral data on URI Super Actinic and Actinic White fluorescent lamps, typical of many other brands. LEDs can produce many of the wavelengths seen in the chart. Depends upon the combination of LEDs, me thinks.

 

[oreo54]

Blue part is easy.. if you want the green(major) and amber(minor) spike...

Blue peak looks to be about 425..

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED UV (410nm) [120°] x3
LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x6
LED RoyalBlue (440nm) [120°] x4
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 49.4 lm
Radiant flux : 5,600 mW
PPF : 19.5 umol/s
TCP : ‑ K
CRI : ‑
λp : 417 nm
Color : #5E33FF

Close enough?

 

[jda]

You will need to build your own with true UV in there.

I still use UHO Super Actinics and while Reef Brite XHO (with the reflectors) get the closest, they are still not the same.

Nothing looks like UVL Super Actinic except for the UVL Super Actinic. They still make them, if you care.

 

[oreo54]

You will need to build your own with true UV in there.

I still use UHO Super Actinics and while Reef Brite XHO (with the reflectors) get the closest, they are still not the same.

Nothing looks like UVL Super Actinic except for the UVL Super Actinic. They still make them, if you care.

Where do you see UV in there? Most if not all is down converted to "blue" .
If things don't "look" like it it's mostly due to the green spike and amber..

The most widely used aquarium lamp on the market for over 20yrs. The 100% Blue spectrum, which peaks at 420nm allows chlorophyll absorption which simulates photosynthesis. Great for reef and coral enhancement.

http://www.uvlco.com/AquariumT12VHO.html

 

[jda]

That is what everybody who does not know what they are talking about says. People who do know happen to understand the inherent difficulty and infinite nature of that statement and do not utter it whimsically like those who are unable to understand the breath and depth of it's meaning.

 

[oreo54]

That is what everybody who does not know what they are talking about says. People who do know happen to understand the inherent difficulty and infinite nature of that statement and do not utter it whimsically like those who are unable to understand the breath and depth of it's meaning.

One doesn't need to be a reef snob like you to figure out what LED's match a particular spectrum..

 

[Gareth elliott]

I was under the impression anything under 400nm was UV?

When i look at actinic charts on less curved graphs, always have seen a solid peak around 385nm. While less light is produced at this wavelength than say 410-430, its still significant for coral phosphorescence. At least under my understanding of lighting of corals.

The leds available at these wavelengths are very expensive, and tend to burn out the quickest.

 

[jda]

Again, too dumb to know what you do not know. People have been trying to match a VHO Super Actinic since LEDs started to get used. I guess that all of them are morons since you figured it out and none of them have - except for the ones that used true UV, but those are not commercially viable so none have gotten produced. If you had any real experience with this, then you would know. Another case of paper (or monitor) genius.

I am sure that your LED design on your imaginary reef looks awesome.

 

[oreo54]

Again, too dumb to know what you do not know. People have been trying to match a VHO Super Actinic since LEDs started to get used. I guess that all of them are morons since you figured it out and none of them have - except for the ones that used true UV, but those are not commercially viable so none have gotten produced. If you had any real experience with this, then you would know. Another case of paper (or monitor) genius.

I am sure that your LED design on your imaginary reef looks awesome.

Show me their diode patterns..

https://reefs.com/magazine/product-...tinic-white-and-aquasun-high-output-t5-lamps/

 

[jda]

Gareth - corals can take in true UV (yes, under 400nm), use some of the energy and emit the lower-energy frequency in the visible range. For a made-up example, an acropora takes in 385nm, used 15nm and emits a nice violet at 400nm - you cannot do this unless you have real 385nm light in the spectrum. This is what produces at lot of the intense colors that VHOs make. You need real UV for this.

 

[oreo54]

Gareth - corals can take in true UV (yes, under 400nm), use some of the energy and emit the lower-energy frequency in the visible range. For a made-up example, an acropora takes in 385nm, used 15nm and emits a nice violet at 400nm - you cannot do this unless you have real 385nm light in the spectrum. This is what produces at lot of the intense colors that VHOs make. You need real UV for this.

I was under the impression anything under 400nm was UV?

When i look at actinic charts on less curved graphs, always have seen a solid peak around 385nm. While less light is produced at this wavelength than say 410-430, its still significant for coral phosphorescence. At least under my understanding of lighting of corals.

The leds available at these wavelengths are very expensive, and tend to burn out the quickest.

https://reefs.com/magazine/coral-coloration-fluorescence-part-1/

 

[oreo54]

http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/24821-super-actinic-reef-spectrum-new-product-launch/

Ok, picked up the Super Actinic Spectrum from Build My LED today.
If you're already used to LED's you will not see a huge difference in pop from your corals. However, the difference in the brightness of the pop between my VHO Super Actinics and the BML Super Actinic is very substantial. Here's some pics of the tank and corals to get an Idea of the power and spread difference.
Before you look, bear in mind the colors are never as vivid in pictures as in real life, and also
What you're seeing is 2 6' Super Actinic VHO's on the front and rear of my tank at 320 watts total


VS


the 4' Build My LED Super Actinic Fixture at about 75 watts.

 

[oreo54]

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/to...t-for-ricordias-and-other-fluorescent-corals/

 

[oreo54]

I was under the impression anything under 400nm was UV?

Yes

When i look at actinic charts on less curved graphs, always have seen a solid peak around 385nm.

Mercury emission line ..Very narrow peak. Height (intensity) depends on numerous factors and amount of shielding.
One could argue all day about its necessity..

Additionally, pigments in zooxanthellae (MAAs, or mycosporine-like amino acids) protect zooxanthellae against ultraviolet radiation do so only up to about 340 nm. If the energy of UV-A light between 340 nm and 380 nm is absorbed by photopigments, but not used in photosynthesis, how else would it be dissipated? See Table 11.
However, there is little doubt that very strong doses of UV-A sometimes seen in aquaria (through use of unshielded metal halide or mercury vapor lamps) can be harmful. See here for details:


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/8/aafeature

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/2004/8/aafeature

While less light is produced at this wavelength than say 410-430, its still significant for coral phosphorescence. At least under my understanding of lighting of corals.

See below. Note that most pigments have a broad absorption spectrum. It's not very "protective" if it only absorbs at a narrow wavelength.

The leds available at these wavelengths are very expensive, and tend to burn out the quickest.

Yes.. but they don't "burn out" usually.
The high energy and concentrated photons tend to heat their plastic/silicone lens and brown it. Same heat can break the gold wires or disrupt the chip.
"Good" real UV diodes use quartz glass or other exotic" lens materials..
https://wp.optics.arizona.edu/optom.../sites/53/2016/10/Tutorial1_james-Johnson.pdf
Easier to see..Now creating those pigments is another story.
I'm sure the list isn't all inclusive but covers a wide common range.
LED's don't emit as narrow as some assume..
Tubes generally don't have as much 385 as say MH's do..
400nm LED's even less though..
https://reefs.com/magazine/photosyn...results-of-short-term-exposure-to-led-lights/

For fun..
https://reefs.com/magazine/photosyn...results-of-short-term-exposure-to-led-lights/
DISCLAIMER: Do with it what you want and "things are subject to change".. The science is still young.
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/120/m120p185.pdf

Ultraviolet Radiation Output

Since ultraviolet radiation is generated to excite the phosphors contained within the glass tube of fluorescent lamps, and the name of the company is UV Lighting, it would be logical to conclude that these lights produce ultraviolet radiation. In fact, these almost all UV radiation is absorbed by the internal phosphors or the glass tube. Hence, concerns about UV with these particular lamps are non-issues (but be aware that some T5 lamps – such as those marketed for use with reptiles and transmitting UV-A and UV-B – will generate significant amounts of potentially harmful radiation).

https://reefs.com/magazine/product-...tinic-white-and-aquasun-high-output-t5-lamps/

 

[TerraFerma]

Yes


Mercury emission line ..Very narrow peak. Height (intensity) depends on numerous factors and amount of shielding.
One could argue all day about its necessity..
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/2004/8/aafeature



See below. Note that most pigments have a broad absorption spectrum. It's not very "protective" if it only absorbs at a narrow wavelength.

Yes.. but they don't "burn out" usually.
The high energy and concentrated photons tend to heat their plastic/silicone lens and brown it. Same heat can break the gold wires or disrupt the chip.
"Good" real UV diodes use quartz glass or other exotic" lens materials..
https://wp.optics.arizona.edu/optom.../sites/53/2016/10/Tutorial1_james-Johnson.pdf
Easier to see..Now creating those pigments is another story.
I'm sure the list isn't all inclusive but covers a wide common range.
LED's don't emit as narrow as some assume..
Tubes generally don't have as much 385 as say MH's do..
400nm LED's even less though..
https://reefs.com/magazine/photosyn...results-of-short-term-exposure-to-led-lights/

For fun..
https://reefs.com/magazine/photosyn...results-of-short-term-exposure-to-led-lights/
DISCLAIMER: Do with it what you want and "things are subject to change".. The science is still young.
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/120/m120p185.pdf


https://reefs.com/magazine/product-...tinic-white-and-aquasun-high-output-t5-lamps/

What's a good make of proper LED that I can buy?

 

[oreo54]

What's a good make of proper LED that I can buy?

Sadly, if you don't build it yourself your main choices would be sbreef actinic bar or Orphek bar. Orphek will customize but don't have a list of diodes handy that they use..
Orphek is 410/430 diodes
At this point just do a search on actinic led for others and other recommendations..
https://sbreeflights.com/sbar-supplemental-lights/18-26-sbar-supplemental-5050-bar-lights.html
There are reefbrights and illumimagic bars as well..
https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/4...MIj5be2sC86AIV0YZbCh0PzQF5EAkYASABEgItpPD_BwEhttps://reefbuilders.com/2019/08/23/new-illumagic-vitamini-led-super-actinic-led-lights/
Prob. the most "complete" light but the most expensive I believe.
On paper Looks more "blue" than the others..Strangely only has one 400nm diode, in the center.
Not seeing any secondary lenses either (other than the normal 120 degree ones.. So not the best for deep penetration.
400/420/450/470
Orphek more violet 410/430
sbreef 450/420 deep blue
reefbrights..??? not recommended.

There could be others..
Picking a "best" is a personal opinion..and since I'm STRICTLY sort of a color guy.. NO judgement beyond that..

 

[TerraFerma]

Sadly, if you don't build it yourself your main choices would be sbreef actinic bar or Orphek bar. Orphek will customize but don't have a list of diodes handy that they use..
Orphek is 410/430 diodes
At this point just do a search on actinic led for others and other recommendations..
https://sbreeflights.com/sbar-supplemental-lights/18-26-sbar-supplemental-5050-bar-lights.html
There are reefbrights and illumimagic bars as well..
https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/4...MIj5be2sC86AIV0YZbCh0PzQF5EAkYASABEgItpPD_BwEhttps://reefbuilders.com/2019/08/23/new-illumagic-vitamini-led-super-actinic-led-lights/
Prob. the most "complete" light but the most expensive I believe.
On paper Looks more "blue" than the others..Strangely only has one 400nm diode, in the center.
Not seeing any secondary lenses either (other than the normal 120 degree ones.. So not the best for deep penetration.
400/420/450/470
Orphek more violet 410/430
sbreef 450/420 deep blue
reefbrights..??? not recommended.

There could be others..
Picking a "best" is a personal opinion..and since I'm STRICTLY sort of a color guy.. NO judgement beyond that..

I do build my own. Best diodes for UV?

 

[A. grandis]

VHOs are great! I was trying to stay away from this thread, but I had way too much fun with VHOs when I was a kid and many reefers had extraordinary coral health/growth.

I keep hearing people say here and there that UV is harmful to corals...
...and I keep saying that if that would be the case we would NEVER have absolutely healthy and colorful corals thriving and fighting for space in extremely shallow waters!

"Coral Crucible - Shallow Waters Corals, Kingman Reef, 2007

Located in the central South Pacific Ocean, Kingman Reef remains largely unspoiled with healthy and abundant corals. Exploring its remote location is like traveling back in time."

https://www.arttngallery.com/exhibit-brian-skerry
And... consequently we would NEVER be able to keep such corals under halides at all.
UV is a vital part of lighting a reef system IMHO.
VHOs emit beneficial UV and should be addressed as one of the best total or supplementary options for optimal coral growth/health in captivity.
A system under VHO lighting only will develop amazing colors and robust growth!!!

The sad reality is that LEDs aren't practically applicable as an UV option today. As Tullio Del Aquilla well said... If we had a LED to try to substitute other better real UV options it would basically melt.


If you think that is true only for Acropora, you're wrong!
Zoanthids receive HUGE amounts of UV in nature as well. They do great under halides! VHOs and T5 are also amazing for zoas in captivity. Halides will help them produce pigmentation just like in the ocean, that no other light will IME.
Here is what it looks like in nature:



I would hope that after this post we should consider LEDs out of the question in terms of UV.
And of course... this is just my opinion.
Reefing has been very relative lately in terms of personal preference and perspective.
Everyone will choose the results they think is best.

 

[oreo54]

I do build my own. Best diodes for UV?

Viosys 420's from
Stevesleds. Note the narrow lensing though.
Rest can be lumileds which also makes some decent uv's
<420...kind of iffy. Most use semileds

 

[oreo54]

VHOs emit beneficial UV

Proof? I can't find much below 390..Well within LED range.


AFAICT nobody's discussing MH's