Clown Fish dying off.. can't figure out why.

[miyags]

I do both. No more russian roulette for my fish. I haven't lost a fish since I set up my hospital tank, and I treat all new comers. I buy my fish from petco, and I see that some fish in there system have noticeable ick, So I treat.

 

[legomaheggos]

My yellow tang has a white spot on both sides of its rear fin, two speckles, one on each side but I thought it was just salt or sand on it. It is on the exact same spot on each side if that makes sense. Other than that, my other fish show nothing. Can prazi pro be done with my anemone and inverts or will the eggs die off without fish in the tank?

 

[Deinonych]

I do both. No more russian roulette for my fish. I haven't lost a fish since I set up my hospital tank, and I treat all new comers. I buy my fish from petco, and I see that some fish in there system have noticeable ick, So I treat.

As do I - all new acquisitions get Prazipro, followed by TTM and observation before they go into the DT.

 

[Deinonych]

Prazi can be dosed without harming inverts. It's one of the only "reef safe" meds available. The eggs/larvae will die off after a few weeks without fish in the tank.

 

[Deinonych]

My yellow tang has a white spot on both sides of its rear fin, two speckles, one on each side but I thought it was just salt or sand on it. It is on the exact same spot on each side if that makes sense. Other than that, my other fish show nothing. Can prazi pro be done with my anemone and inverts or will the eggs die off without fish in the tank?

The white speck may be its scalpel if I understand your description correctly.

 

[legomaheggos]

Prazi can be dosed without harming inverts. It's one of the only "reef safe" meds available. The eggs/larvae will die off after a few weeks without fish in the tank.

I was reading that it seems to kill snails on the amazon reviews. If I move all my fish to my 27 gallon tote and set it up as a hospital, can I leave my anemone, snails, hermit crabs and star fish in the tank without treatment over 6-8 weeks and let the problem solve itself in my DT without risking it? Or will that tank need to be treated?

Sorry for a million questions... Keeping saltwater is so much more complex than the FW i'm used to. They get sick its a simple powder and done most of the time...

 

[legomaheggos]

The white speck may be its scalpel if I understand your description correctly.

Its very hard to get a picture of it, but its 1 speck on both sides, in the exact same spot, where the body reaches the arch near the back fin. It seemed awfully coincidental to have that speck in the same exact placement on both sides and it be a disease.

 

[legomaheggos]

Waik?k? Aquarium » Yellow Tang

Its the same white spot as this photo. Guessing you are correct about scalpel.

 

[Humblefish]

Difficult to determine anything from the pictures. Fish flashing is a symptom of flukes, Cryptocaryon (ich) and Amyloodinium (velvet). I'm going to rule out velvet for now, as it typically wipes the tank upon infection. That leaves Crypto and flukes. I would start by dosing Prazipro. You will need to do two treatments 5-7 days apart to ensure you kill any larvae that hatch from eggs. Just follow the instructions on the bottle, and be sure to turn off your skimmer and remove carbon if you use it. If the fish are still flashing after two treatments, then you may have Crypto. Are any of the fish showing white spots that look like a sprinkling of salt?

^^This would be my recommendation as well, although I think it's possible you have multiple diseases in this tank. Two rounds of Prazipro should knock out any flukes and then you can reassess the situation if symptoms return.

Prazipro (praziquantel): Treats flukes, black ich, and some internal parasites (worms).

How To Treat - In either a quarantine or display tank, dose Prazipro at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. DO NOT OVERDOSE (especially with wrasses), try not to mix with other medications (for various reasons), and provide additional gas exchange while treating with Prazi. Wait 5-7 days, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a couple of weeks.

Pros - Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing.

 

[legomaheggos]

Any thoughts on api general cure in a hospital tank for these guys to just try to knock it all out?

 

[Humblefish]

Any thoughts on api general cure in a hospital tank for these guys to just try to knock it all out?

API General Cure contains both praziquantel & metronidazole, in powder form. I've actually been experimenting with this in QT as a suitable alternative to Prazipro; and so far, so good. However, I still have two reservations about it:

1. Is the powder form of prazi as effective as the liquid form, found in Prazipro?

2. Prazipro contains a stronger concentration of praziquantel (9.46 mg/gal) than General Cure (7.5 mg/gal). Is that still strong enough to get the job done?

 

[Deinonych]

I was reading that it seems to kill snails on the amazon reviews. If I move all my fish to my 27 gallon tote and set it up as a hospital, can I leave my anemone, snails, hermit crabs and star fish in the tank without treatment over 6-8 weeks and let the problem solve itself in my DT without risking it? Or will that tank need to be treated?

Sorry for a million questions... Keeping saltwater is so much more complex than the FW i'm used to. They get sick its a simple powder and done most of the time...

I've never known prazi to harm snails or corals. I don't keep anemones, so I can't speak directly to that. If you remove all fish, you do not need to treat the main tank. Just "ghost feed" it periodically to keep the biofilter active - usually a small pinch of flake food every few days does the trick.

Waik?k? Aquarium » Yellow Tang

Its the same white spot as this photo. Guessing you are correct about scalpel.

Yep, that's the scalpel.

Any thoughts on api general cure in a hospital tank for these guys to just try to knock it all out?

General cure contains praziquantel (active ingredient in Prazipro) and metronidazole (broad spectrum antibiotic). I would not use it in the DT as metronidazole will wipe out your biofilter. It is not a "reef safe" medication.

 

[legomaheggos]

I plan on doing any further treatment in a QT. My anemone are getting stressed from the water being messed with recently due to the deaths, so I'm just gonna play it safe.

This is what I was referencing with the snails.

http://www.amazon.com/product-safe-...UTF8&asin=B004LOBGYA&cdItems=25&store=generic

I have ordered Prazipro and used prime, should be here saturday. I can get general cure today and start it by this afternoon. I am going to build a sponge filter using a powerhead for the QT. Just trying to play this as safe as possible anymore. Losing fish is so stressful. Still heart broken over my clowns . They are by far my favorite type of fish along with blue tangs and moorish idol.

When I get this over with and know its safe I may replace them with 2 ocellaris and 2 black clowns.. but thats months down the road from now.. I will use prazi as a treatment for new arrivals, but I'm thinking with these guys, I just need to hit a wide spectrum cure and cross my fingers.

 

[Deinonych]

I plan on doing any further treatment in a QT. My anemone are getting stressed from the water being messed with recently due to the deaths, so I'm just gonna play it safe.

This is what I was referencing with the snails.

http://www.amazon.com/product-safe-...UTF8&asin=B004LOBGYA&cdItems=25&store=generic

I have ordered Prazipro and used prime, should be here saturday. I can get general cure today and start it by this afternoon. I am going to build a sponge filter using a powerhead for the QT. Just trying to play this as safe as possible anymore. Losing fish is so stressful. Still heart broken over my clowns . They are by far my favorite type of fish along with blue tangs and moorish idol.

When I get this over with and know its safe I may replace them with 2 ocellaris and 2 black clowns.. but thats months down the road from now.. I will use prazi as a treatment for new arrivals, but I'm thinking with these guys, I just need to hit a wide spectrum cure and cross my fingers.

Treatment in a QT sounds like a good plan. You will want to leave your DT without fish for 72 days to ensure any latent parasites die off. Please read Humblefish's stickies at the top of this forum for treatment options. General Cure will not treat Cryptocaryon if that is what your fish have. You will need to treat with TTM, copper or chloroquine phosphate. I prefer TTM, but with multiple fish it can be problematic.

For new arrivals, I would strongly recommend proactive treatment with prazi as well as TTM to eliminate Crypto. Also, if you are going to add clownfish in the future, only one pair can occupy the tank. They are highly territorial and a bonded pair will kill rivals.

 

[legomaheggos]

Seems to be a few varying ideas of treatment. what is ttm? Will it cure a broad spectrum? The only additional symptom I noticed prior to their death was that they became very clear. The clowns had very little color before they passed but showed no white marks on its outside. I really do not believe it is ich.

 

[Humblefish]

Excellent advice from Deinonych above! :bigsmile:

 

[Humblefish]

@legomaheggos If you are going to QT, I would treat these fish as though you just bought them from a LFS. As such, follow one of the two protocols outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

Either "Option A" or "Option B"

 

[legomaheggos]

Excellent write up. Thanks for the link. I still can't decide whether I should use gen cure or prazipro. My blue tangs are still scratching against rock but they've already been out eating sea weed so that's a plus.


I think I will treat with gen cure first and then activate the carbon with a water change and then follow up with prazipro to make sure it's all gone.

Does that sound good for you or would u do it the other way around? I really have no idea what I'm dealing with in this tank. It sounds like internal parasites. I see no signs to indicate ich at this point on their bodies..

 

[Deinonych]

Excellent write up. Thanks for the link. I still can't decide whether I should use gen cure or prazipro. My blue tangs are still scratching against rock but they've already been out eating sea weed so that's a plus.


I think I will treat with gen cure first and then activate the carbon with a water change and then follow up with prazipro to make sure it's all gone.

Does that sound good for you or would u do it the other way around? I really have no idea what I'm dealing with in this tank. It sounds like internal parasites. I see no signs to indicate ich at this point on their bodies..

Flashing is typically not seen with internal parasites. You are likely dealing with an ectoparasite like Cryptocaryon or flukes. General Cure as an initial treatment option is a good idea. There is no need to dose Prazipro in additional to General Cure as they both contain the same active ingredient. If you still see flashing after treatment, you are likely dealing with Cryptocaryon.

 

[legomaheggos]

I have ordered cupramine as well. It helps with crypto right? May use it as a follow up