Clownfish rapidly opening mouth / darting around

[keizo]

Hi friends, new time poster here. I was hoping to seek some inputs on what I should do regarding one of my new pets, a tank-bred Clownfish (Phantom design, or so the LFS says). It seems to have rapid mouth opening behavior that I've noticed for about a week now, as well as some darting-around the tank on the occasion.

Other tank mates are on the other side of the aquarium (one other clownfish that has marked its territory on the literal other side of the 5' glass), as well as a timid Foxface and gold head Goby.

There was some slight in-fighting, mostly the other clownfish picking at this one when they were first introduced. That fighting has since stopped since they've established their territory, but I wanted to make sure this wasn't a sign of disease or parasite, which I'm afraid it might be.

• Ammonia reading = 0
• Nitrite reading = 0
• Nitrate reading = 9.8 ppm (a bit high, I'm afraid)
• Phosphate reading = 0.1 ppm (also a bit high, I'm afraid)
• dKH reading = 10.3 dKH
• 100 gallon DT, 145 total volume
• QT for about 2 weeks, displayed normal behavior

Any advice? Guidance? Insights?

 

[Kathy Floyd]

#fishmedic
@vetteguy53081

Welcome to R2R. I tagged a couple folks who can help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Can you get a video of the other clown as well? I want to compare the two.

This one is a bit thin, breathing fast and has a general tattered/mucus look to it. Could be from aggression, but could also be a parasite issue, seeing the other clown helps figure that out.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi friends, new time poster here. I was hoping to seek some inputs on what I should do regarding one of my new pets, a tank-bred Clownfish (Phantom design, or so the LFS says). It seems to have rapid mouth opening behavior that I've noticed for about a week now, as well as some darting-around the tank on the occasion.

Other tank mates are on the other side of the aquarium (one other clownfish that has marked its territory on the literal other side of the 5' glass), as well as a timid Foxface and gold head Goby.

There was some slight in-fighting, mostly the other clownfish picking at this one when they were first introduced. That fighting has since stopped since they've established their territory, but I wanted to make sure this wasn't a sign of disease or parasite, which I'm afraid it might be.

• Ammonia reading = 0
• Nitrite reading = 0
• Nitrate reading = 9.8 ppm (a bit high, I'm afraid)
• Phosphate reading = 0.1 ppm (also a bit high, I'm afraid)
• dKH reading = 10.3 dKH
• 100 gallon DT, 145 total volume
• QT for about 2 weeks, displayed normal behavior

Any advice? Guidance? Insights?

I also see aggression signs from the fins but also noticeable is flashing and darting and may be a sign of flukes. Jay made mention of possible brook. For either scenario, often a 5 minute freshwater dip the same temperature as display tank will offer temporary relief BUT. . . at the rate the fish is breathing, it is a risk you take as it will help or stress the fish further.
Do the video comparison Jay requested and then go from there.

 

[Cell]

Looks like he's going after that fuzz/debris like he is hungry. Is it eating?

 

[Reefing102begal]

Hi friends, new time poster here. I was hoping to seek some inputs on what I should do regarding one of my new pets, a tank-bred Clownfish (Phantom design, or so the LFS says). It seems to have rapid mouth opening behavior that I've noticed for about a week now, as well as some darting-around the tank on the occasion.

Other tank mates are on the other side of the aquarium (one other clownfish that has marked its territory on the literal other side of the 5' glass), as well as a timid Foxface and gold head Goby.

There was some slight in-fighting, mostly the other clownfish picking at this one when they were first introduced. That fighting has since stopped since they've established their territory, but I wanted to make sure this wasn't a sign of disease or parasite, which I'm afraid it might be.

• Ammonia reading = 0
• Nitrite reading = 0
• Nitrate reading = 9.8 ppm (a bit high, I'm afraid)
• Phosphate reading = 0.1 ppm (also a bit high, I'm afraid)
• dKH reading = 10.3 dKH
• 100 gallon DT, 145 total volume
• QT for about 2 weeks, displayed normal behavior

Any advice? Guidance? Insights?

I always scratch my head to why people think 0.1 phos is high? Mine read 4.3 this morning. But i guess everything i have is used to the high nutrients

 

[keizo]

Hey ya'll. Thanks so much for the speedy responses. As a first-time poster to the site, I feel impressed at how engaged you all are and just wanted to say I really appreciate you all chiming in to help.

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Here's the video comparison of the other clown - again, he hangs out on the other side of the tank.

@Cell As far as eating, he does still seem to show interest in food but it's not at the same level of interest as the footage I have here of the other clown.

@Landon20 - Perhaps I am a bit too particular about where I'd like the phos readings to be - I'll reserve my normative statements about whether I think they're a tad this or a tad that in my future posts

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey ya'll. Thanks so much for the speedy responses. As a first-time poster to the site, I feel impressed at how engaged you all are and just wanted to say I really appreciate you all chiming in to help.

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Here's the video comparison of the other clown - again, he hangs out on the other side of the tank.

@Cell As far as eating, he does still seem to show interest in food but it's not at the same level of interest as the footage I have here of the other clown.

@Landon20 - Perhaps I am a bit too particular about where I'd like the phos readings to be - I'll reserve my normative statements about whether I think they're a tad this or a tad that in my future posts

This clown is better, but still is a bit thin and swimming a bit "off".

I wonder if you should try a 5 minute FW dip on the worst one and see if that provides any relief? If so, then it is probably flukes or brooklynella and we can at least narrow it down a bit.

Jay

 

[keizo]

This clown is better, but still is a bit thin and swimming a bit "off".

I wonder if you should try a 5 minute FW dip on the worst one and see if that provides any relief? If so, then it is probably flukes or brooklynella and we can at least narrow it down a bit.

Jay

Okay. I'll try the FW dip on the Phantom and probably transfer him into a QT tank. I'll post results in a bit.

 

[keizo]

Update here with some footage @Jay Hemdal . I've done the 5-minute FW dip on the Phantom and have taken footage of the particles that are floating around the container. I'm not an expert on identifying flukes or otherwise, so wondering if this confirms that it was indeed flukes.

Additionally, I transferred my poor little guy into my QT tank - his breathing hasn't stopped being rapid. I took an extended video of him in the tank - no sign of immediate observable relief via behavior.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The white specks in the water is likely mucus from the fish’s skin.
Now that it is in a QT, have you considered a treatment? Coppersafe would work if this is velvet. If it is brooklynella, formalin is better to use, but hard to source.
Jay

 

[keizo]

The white specks in the water is likely mucus from the fish’s skin.
Now that it is in a QT, have you considered a treatment? Coppersafe would work if this is velvet. If it is brooklynella, formalin is better to use, but hard to source.
Jay

Hi Jay,

Got it. Thanks for the note, and for clarifying that these were not flukes but rather likely mucus discharge from the skin. I will proceed with a copper treatment for velvet. As you pointed out, I haven't had great luck looking for formalin online.

 

[Reefing102begal]

Hey ya'll. Thanks so much for the speedy responses. As a first-time poster to the site, I feel impressed at how engaged you all are and just wanted to say I really appreciate you all chiming in to help.

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Here's the video comparison of the other clown - again, he hangs out on the other side of the tank.

@Cell As far as eating, he does still seem to show interest in food but it's not at the same level of interest as the footage I have here of the other clown.

@Landon20 - Perhaps I am a bit too particular about where I'd like the phos readings to be - I'll reserve my normative statements about whether I think they're a tad this or a tad that in my future posts

Awesome!!

 

[keizo]

I have some unfortunate news, it seems that the disease and/or the stress associated with putting this poor guy through the freshwater dip --> quarantine tank move has been too much and he is now no longer with us.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions that I received to help treat this little guy. Special thanks @Jay Hemdal for offering your time to provide your inputs.

I will say, he was a big source of stress given that he was the one who possessed the most obvious symptoms of something wrong happening. I thought the other clown (the orange DaVinci that I also shared at the top of this thread) was fine and had no issues, but part of me is concerned given what happened to the Phantom and the fact that the swimming seemed "off."

Not sure how to best proceed with the other tankmates as I haven't really been able to identify the cause of death (parasitic, stress, other?). Any final thoughts or inputs on how best to proceed?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to hear.

The best thing to do now is to just watch the other fish very closely every day, to ensure they don't begin developing symptoms.

Jay

 

[The Fry]

Heyy man sorry for both you and the fish. It most probably was brook. These are the exact symptoms my clowns showed prior to their deaths. They were eating up until their last day too. If its brook, then its game over. Nothing can save em. Formalin is not something thats easy to source. Trust me, I tried everything.

 

[keizo]

Thanks everyone. Will keep a close eye on them.

 

[keizo]

Thanks everyone. Will keep a close eye on them.

It has only been a day and the other clown seems to be behaving similarly. Nothing unusual relative to its behavior the past 2-3 days.

I was unsure whether (1) I should pursue another few days of observation period of the other fish (the Foxface and Goby) to ensure they are also not displaying behaviors associated with the various parasites we mentioned above, or if (2) I should just consider re-locating them to the QT immediately to initiate a fallow period (and assume that the worst has already infiltrated the DT, whether it's brook, velvet, flukes).

If I pursue (2), I was unsure what medication I should even put the fish through, given that I haven't yet been able to determine whether it's brooke, velvet, or fluke. If it's brooke... not sure I am able to even acquire the necessary formalin (nor do I think I want to expose myself /household to the chemicals when conducting the recommended bath).

@Jay Hemdal - any advice on best practice here?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It has only been a day and the other clown seems to be behaving similarly. Nothing unusual relative to its behavior the past 2-3 days.

I was unsure whether (1) I should pursue another few days of observation period of the other fish (the Foxface and Goby) to ensure they are also not displaying behaviors associated with the various parasites we mentioned above, or if (2) I should just consider re-locating them to the QT immediately to initiate a fallow period (and assume that the worst has already infiltrated the DT, whether it's brook, velvet, flukes).

If I pursue (2), I was unsure what medication I should even put the fish through, given that I haven't yet been able to determine whether it's brooke, velvet, or fluke. If it's brooke... not sure I am able to even acquire the necessary formalin (nor do I think I want to expose myself /household to the chemicals when conducting the recommended bath).

@Jay Hemdal - any advice on best practice here?

When you say the other clown is "behaving similarly" do you mean it is behaving like the one that died, or that it is still normal?

We've been discussing brook, velvet and flukes. We haven't been able to make a firm diagnosis. The trouble is, all three of those diseases require different treatments. Also, I need to add, all three of those are EXTERNAL diseases. We focus on those because they are something that can be treated. Clownfish are also prone to a variety of internal diseases, some of which, like coccidia and viruses, cannot be identified or treated.

Jay

 

[keizo]

When you say the other clown is "behaving similarly" do you mean it is behaving like the one that died, or that it is still normal?

We've been discussing brook, velvet and flukes. We haven't been able to make a firm diagnosis. The trouble is, all three of those diseases require different treatments. Also, I need to add, all three of those are EXTERNAL diseases. We focus on those because they are something that can be treated. Clownfish are also prone to a variety of internal diseases, some of which, like coccidia and viruses, cannot be identified or treated.

Jay

Thanks for the clarifying questions Jay - apologies for the initial confusion.

When I said "behaving similarly", I was comparing its behavior to the behavior it displayed a few days before, e.g. swimming in the same fashion as in the video I had shared a couple days prior, and occasionally (I noticed in the last 24h), sometimes "pseudo" rests itself on my algae scraping magnet. By "pseudo" rest, I mean it looked like it tried to lie down on top of this magnet a couple times but proceeded to swim again (i.e. sideways swimming for a little bit and as it approached the magnet he went back to normal vertical swimming pattern). Not sure if this is indicative of any neurological and/or internal/external parasitic symptoms.

And yes, that's correct, you've summarized the quandary pretty well . It seems that the current paths are:

(1) Pre-emptively fallow the tank and perform behavioral observation of remaining livestock in the quarantine tank.

(2) Continue observation of remaining livestock in the display tank, monitoring for signs of external parasites that can help narrow down treatment options once they manifest.

Both paths are centered around further observation until we can detect external parasite.
Else, if the remaining livestock die without any visible external parasite (i.e. especially the clownfish), we may be able to hypothesize that there could have been an internal parasite that killed it.