Cold temperate tank system in Sweden
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PranK
Active Member
Brilliant set up. Brilliant tanks.
I live on the water in Sydney and while I do like exploring rock pools etc, I haven't been tempted to go cooler water. But, our water doesn't get down to 12 and I think there are more funky critters at that temp.
I live on the water in Sydney and while I do like exploring rock pools etc, I haven't been tempted to go cooler water. But, our water doesn't get down to 12 and I think there are more funky critters at that temp.
Oldsalt
Active Member
He says in the post 12° to 15°C which comes to 53.6° to 59°F (°F = x°C x 1.8 + 32)...
Oldsalt
Active Member
Those are some awesome corals and fish. Yes of course it qualifies as a reef. Doesn't matter what temperature it is. Some of the most beautiful aquatic life reside in cool to very cold waters.Well I forgot the fish!
d.fast
Community Member
Or Atlantic Wolffish which will probably make more sense to the english naitives 
Wonder how motivated you will be to put your hands in the tank again if you add one... ;-)
edit. Arrgh! There were a lot of new replies when I wrote mine!
Wonder how motivated you will be to put your hands in the tank again if you add one... ;-)edit. Arrgh! There were a lot of new replies when I wrote mine!
Oldsalt
Active Member
Here in Western Australia there was a huge marine only LFS shop in Malaga. This guy was building custom systems and had 2 huge temperate displays of local marine life. He had an enormous DIY chiller out back just to support these tanks. As far as I know, aquarium chillers (especially for saltwater) weren't commercially made back then (mid 1990's). I asked him how he managed to prevent outer glass condensation and he said that he used double glazing with an air gap in between. I would have considered setting up something similar but when he told me how much his power cost I decided against it. It's unfortunate really because the marine life off the Perth coast is uniquely beautiful. Winter water temperatures average 17° to 20°C (62.6° to 68°F). Summer temperatures average 19° to 23°C (66.2° to 73.4°F). There is a current (Leuwin Current) around 5 km off the Perth coast that runs through Rottnest Island waters. There are many tropical species found around Rottnest that typically occur at our Great Barrier and other tropical reefs in the more northern Australian regions. Rottnest is a great place to dive or snorkel. Collecting livestock by unlicensed persons is strictly prohibited. I don't know of any licensed marine collectors in Perth. They mainly do their collecting near the Great Barrier (and surrounding areas/islands), Ningaloo reef (1000 km north of Perth near Shark Bay, Coral Bay and Monkey Mia - where one can go to meet the dolphins), Hautman Abrolhos Island chain, Dampier (farther north in Western Australia), and other places not frequented by saltwater crocodiles!! All the aforementioned, except the Great Barrier Reef, are in the Indian Ocean. I have no idea how the guy here got his stock. Perhaps he commissioned a licensed collector (or not)
It must be very interesting and rewarding being able to collect (while being responsible and conserving nature) your own stock.
Can't wait to see more photos as you progress. Thank you for your posts Silver Dollar. Following this with great enthusiasm.
I have a couple of questions for you: are you using a protein skimmer? The reason I ask is because the guy I mentioned above told me that skimmers produce much more skimmate at colder temperatures. I couldn't verify this but it makes sense because colder water is proportionately more dense than warmer water - eg, the same water sample has a higher SG than it would if it were heated up. If you are using one, are you finding this to be true?
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Oldsalt
Active Member
d.fast
Community Member
They have very interesting teeth
Designed for crushing urchins and clams. I used to keep a shorthorn sculpin in my temperate tank and after a few months it got very comfortable and launched attacks at my fingers whenever i tried to feed or do some work in the tank. Shorthorn sculpins don't have any teeth though. Wolffish are very different fish but if one were to adopt the same behavior it would make maintenance of the tank a lot more exciting!Also to add to the costs. If the tank is properly insulated and you use smart planing when choosing equipment(avoid power hungry pumps when you can, energy means heat). The costs of cooling the tank is very managable. I have a coldwater tank in our clubs fishroom where my friend keeps a Discus tank. But my tank uses a lot less energy than he uses to heat his. Because my tank retains the temperature while his non insulated tank keeps transfering its heat to the room.
Oldsalt
Active Member
They have very interesting teeth
Also to add to the costs. If the tank is properly insulated and you use smart planing when choosing equipment(avoid power hungry pumps when you can, energy means heat). The costs of cooling the tank is very managable. I have a coldwater tank in our clubs fishroom where my friend keeps a Discus tank. But my tank uses a lot less energy than he uses to heat his. Because my tank retains the temperature while his non insulated tank keeps transfering its heat to the room.
Thanks D.Fast. Knowledge is power! My female clownfish took some skin off my right middle finger (I couldn't give her a salute after that
) while protecting her eggs. No teeth that I could see but it stung like heck.I looked up wolf-fish and they look like they pack a punch.
Interesting that less energy ran a temperate tank than a Discus right next to it. As you say energy = heat. I'm about to swap out my Hailea AC pump driving my big skimmer with a DC brushless for that very reason. Living in Australia, it gets pretty hot and that pump puts out too much heat. I could try my AC power controller (made it myself) to try to wind it down but it would only reduce the efficiency of the skimmer - plus the controller would likely generate as much heat as the 2 together at any setting.
A good brushless DC pump puts out much more for less power and heat - plus I could fine tune it up or down. Higher capacity than the Hailea, toned down, will make the skimmer much better overall IMO. If I ever need "more" the power will be available.
I shopped around not long ago to see how much a chiller would cost for my 1500 (including sump volume) litre system and the cost was prohibitive. We had temperatures above 104°F last week and my home air-conditioning struggled to knock inside temperature lower than 80°. So I bought 4 computer fans, 2 x 10 foot pieces of plastic panel moulding, wire, switch and a thermistor gate to turn it on/off at specific temperatures. It knocks the temperature down amazingly but the evaporation sky-rockets. At the peak of the heat wave, I was going through some 3+ gallons of RODI water each day. I thought about converting one of my shop portable air conditioners (refrigerated) into a chiller for next summer but I need to decide what the unit's plumbing water/coolant interface will consist of - hard plastic or titanium??Obviously the latter will conduct heat better but costs much more. Hopefully I will win the lottery before starting that one. For now, my 4 fan unit will have to do. I put a photo of it here...all screws, washers and nuts are plastic from an electronic store. All wire well insulated.
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d.fast
Community Member
Yeah, location is not to be ignored. Here in Sweden we rarely have a problem with it beeing to hot inside. Except in av few months in the summer... If we actually manage to get a hot summer... So we usually don't have any problem with heat in the rooms. That said though I have been to Silver Dollars house a couple of times and his chiller does output a huge amount of heat Which would make any normally sized room very toasty while it is running. I think he will put some information on how he deals with that himself though.
Regarding your skimmer. I use an air-driven skimmer that is fed with the cooling loop from the chiller(using the chiller return pump for two tasks, efficiency is key). It does require changing the stones every now and then. But it adds close to no heat to the tank. I also use airstones for circulation. I have discovered that saltcreep in colder saltwater is a lot less problematic compared to running airstones on a tropical tank. Probably because the temperature allows the splashes from the bursting bubbles to seep back into the water instead of evaporation leaving the salt behind.
In my tropical tanks I have the opposite problem. There I use energy hungry pumps as much as I can so I won´t have to use heaters. I have had several heaters fail and detest the things. Id rather beef up my pumps or use my Metal Halide to add heat instead But I only have that issue since my ambient temperature is too cool for a tropical tank.
Which would make any normally sized room very toasty while it is running. I think he will put some information on how he deals with that himself though.Regarding your skimmer. I use an air-driven skimmer that is fed with the cooling loop from the chiller(using the chiller return pump for two tasks, efficiency is key). It does require changing the stones every now and then. But it adds close to no heat to the tank. I also use airstones for circulation. I have discovered that saltcreep in colder saltwater is a lot less problematic compared to running airstones on a tropical tank. Probably because the temperature allows the splashes from the bursting bubbles to seep back into the water instead of evaporation leaving the salt behind.
In my tropical tanks I have the opposite problem. There I use energy hungry pumps as much as I can so I won´t have to use heaters. I have had several heaters fail and detest the things. Id rather beef up my pumps or use my Metal Halide to add heat instead
But I only have that issue since my ambient temperature is too cool for a tropical tank.
Oldsalt
Active Member
I was editing and added fan unto photo while you replied so my apology!
I thought about building a long PVC counter-current skimmer (the top of my tank is almost 7 feet up being 6'x3'x 2.5') so I could have a very efficient air driven skimmer using wooden air stones of 7 feet long behind the tank. The siphon would be self starting and the skimmate cup right above the back of my lighting unit. When I started in saltwater some 30+ years ago, I made my own air driven skimmers and they worked very well. They weren't super pretty but they were cheap. I could easily put a 7 foot one together and see how it works. All I'd risk is maybe $30. I already have 15 feet of 5 inch PVC pipe laying around. Can't hurt to try. I like the idea of using your chiller return into the skimmer. I could possibly use part of my return flow for this idea. It's not going to be wasted because it all ends up back into the system anyway.
I thought about building a long PVC counter-current skimmer (the top of my tank is almost 7 feet up being 6'x3'x 2.5') so I could have a very efficient air driven skimmer using wooden air stones of 7 feet long behind the tank. The siphon would be self starting and the skimmate cup right above the back of my lighting unit. When I started in saltwater some 30+ years ago, I made my own air driven skimmers and they worked very well. They weren't super pretty but they were cheap. I could easily put a 7 foot one together and see how it works. All I'd risk is maybe $30. I already have 15 feet of 5 inch PVC pipe laying around. Can't hurt to try. I like the idea of using your chiller return into the skimmer. I could possibly use part of my return flow for this idea. It's not going to be wasted because it all ends up back into the system anyway.
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OP
OP
Silver Dollar
Community Member
Thanks for all kind words! It's overwhelming.
I'll try to answer all questions. If I miss some, please ask again.
Collecting animals in Sweden is luckily an easy thing. Not much rules except minimum dimensions and seasons for lobster and some fish.
I have not noticed that skimming in cold water will give more skimmate than in warm water. But on the other hand I never have had a tropical reef aquarium.
Regarding the system I will give you the details bit by bit, starting with the most imortant. The cooler.
The to largest tanks 540 and 200 litres (120 and 45 gal) has a common sump and I have one cooler for the whole system. It's an Aquamedic Titan 1500 and it works like a dream. It's connected to the return pipe to the largest tank.
The exhaust air is hot, 35 C, with a room temp at 20C. So there is a fan to draw the hot air outside.
The sump is located in a different room than the tanks and thats sooo nice, but it easily gets untidy...
Water comes from the tanks to the right, into a filter sock.
A skimmer, Bubble Magus NAC66
pH-probe
A small phosphate reactor.
A small airstone skimmer with ozone.
Two return pumps with flow indicators.
A sulphur filter in a bucket with a heater, so the water will keep a temp of 25 C.
The tank is for water changes and it serves all tanks, including the small ones. (There should be a small chiller as well to cool the changing water, but it is on repair)
All aquariums are insulated with styrofoam on all sides and a double glass on front. The small plastic duct with holes, is filled with silica-gel. This glass is removable for cleaning.
I'll try to answer all questions. If I miss some, please ask again.
Collecting animals in Sweden is luckily an easy thing. Not much rules except minimum dimensions and seasons for lobster and some fish.
I have not noticed that skimming in cold water will give more skimmate than in warm water. But on the other hand I never have had a tropical reef aquarium.
Regarding the system I will give you the details bit by bit, starting with the most imortant. The cooler.
The to largest tanks 540 and 200 litres (120 and 45 gal) has a common sump and I have one cooler for the whole system. It's an Aquamedic Titan 1500 and it works like a dream. It's connected to the return pipe to the largest tank.
The exhaust air is hot, 35 C, with a room temp at 20C. So there is a fan to draw the hot air outside.
The sump is located in a different room than the tanks and thats sooo nice, but it easily gets untidy...
Water comes from the tanks to the right, into a filter sock.
A skimmer, Bubble Magus NAC66
pH-probe
A small phosphate reactor.
A small airstone skimmer with ozone.
Two return pumps with flow indicators.
A sulphur filter in a bucket with a heater, so the water will keep a temp of 25 C.
The tank is for water changes and it serves all tanks, including the small ones. (There should be a small chiller as well to cool the changing water, but it is on repair)
All aquariums are insulated with styrofoam on all sides and a double glass on front. The small plastic duct with holes, is filled with silica-gel. This glass is removable for cleaning.
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Brilliant!Thanks for all kind words! It's overwhelming.
I'll try to answer all questions. If I miss some, please ask again.
Collecting animals in Sweden is luckily an easy thing. Not much rules except minimum dimensions and seasons for lobster and some fish.
I have not noticed that skimming in cold water will give more skimmate than in warm water. But on the other hand I never have had a tropical reef aquarium.
Regarding the system I will give you the details bit by bit, starting with the most imortant. The cooler.
The to largest tanks 540 and 200 litres (120 and 45 gal) has a common sump and I have one cooler for the whole system. It's an Aquamedic Titan 1500 and it works like a dream. It's connected to the return pipe to the largest tank.
The exhaust air is hot, 35 C, with a room temp at 20C. So there is a fan to draw the hot air outside.
The sump is located in a different room than the tanks and thats sooo nice, but it easily gets untidy...
Water comes from the tanks to the right, into a filter sock.
A skimmer, Bubble Magus NAC66
pH-probe
A small phosphate reactor.
A small airstone skimmer with ozone.
Two return pumps with flow indicators.
A sulphur filter in a bucket with a heater, so the water will keep a temp of 25 C.
The tank is for water changes and it serves all tanks, including the small ones. (There should be a small chiller as well to cool the changing water, but it is on repair)
All aquariums are insulated with styrofoam on all sides and a double glass on front. The small plastic duct with holes, is filled with silica-gel. This glass is removable for cleaning.
Oldsalt
Active Member
Awesome set up! You've obviously thought of everything! Just an observation - your Bubble magus is certainly full. Do you you always run it on the wet side or is that amount of skimmate "normal" for your conditions? I only ask because I run mine higher up using an acrylic stand so it runs mostly on the dry side (except when I want to purge out scum before cleaning). With the other skimmer - I still have one almost exactly like yours. But it sits in a corner collecting dust. I could easily incorporate it using my DIY ozone generator, however I injected ozone into another Marine Sources skimmer venturi with no ill effects. That skimmer is large and also sits in a corner after I upgraded to the Magus. I'm not sure if a Bubble magus would like ozone so I don't risk it.
I'm curious about what a sulfer filter does. Anyone can jump in and educate me on that one. Please excuse my ignorance.
With the auto water changing (great set ups there too), are you mixing RODI with salt or getting your water from the coast?
There's a story here with regard to water:
When I moved into a new home 9 months ago, I sold my 500 litre tank and bought one 3 times as large (6' long x 3' tall x 2.5' wide ~ 1500 litres with sump). I had a 5 stage RODI unit so I could mix my own water. I bought 3 x 20kg buckets of Reef Pro salt @ $110.00 each. They do 600 litres each, so would cover my total with 300 litres left over. Before I ever opened up any of them, my local LFS asked me "why don't you just call Denis or his son (gave me the mobile numbers)? They deliver all our water up to 5000 litres @ $50 per 1000 litres". He told me that they go out past the reef breaks (Indian Ocean off Perth) and pre filter (only enough to still allow pods and other tiny swimmers in) out large debris then pump it into the truck (looks like a modified fire truck with similar nozzle). So I called him after I bought a 1000 litre potable water IBC storage tank for only $50.00, delivered. I had to 1st cover it with opaque builders plastic sheet to prevent algae. I got 2500 litres of fantastic saltwater for $125.00. He had 25 kg bags of crushed coral on board so I bought 3 for $75.00 - total of $200 for all that can't be beat! I go through the 1000 litre storage water in 8 weeks - 250 litre water change every fortnight. I still have yet to open my salt containers. I put them up for sale but had no takers (even at "make me an offer" prices!) after 6 months. So they sit here for emergencies - I will start to use some when my next batch of Clownfish hatch (3 more nights). After 2 failed attempts due to ill preparation and knowledge, I'm now set up to safely trap (Vossen) and raise them. I won't use that salt for the fry though as I believe they'll do a lot better in the same water they came from. I'm, instead, using it for rotifers, pods and brine shrimp. Why mix when I can simply flick a switch? I suppose you could collect your own water with some difficulty. A good thing about Western Australia is that the temperature almost never goes to 0° C (32° F) even in the dead of "winter" - in the summer (now here's a lot of heat!), I do my water changes early in the morning after it cools overnight. In the winter, I do them mid afternoon when the sun warms it up. My storage tank sits partially under the eaves on the west side of the house. It's a good place for it.
Edit - here's a photo of my old air driven protein skimmer. The hard plastic air line to the lifter is cracked but easily fixed. This one can sit in tank or sump. I bought it in 1988 for $50.00 which was a lot of money at the time! Back then not many companies made them. They didn't even have recommended capacities then - pretty much all guess work. Hard to believe that this skimmer was used on a 6' x 2' x 2' tank and did the job - almost! I really ought to use it. Maybe on my clownfish rearing or quarantine tank?
Might as well show the upper half of my set-up too. The lower half left-most door is behind that old skimmer.
Can't wait to see more photos of the display and its occupants. Great work mate.
I'm curious about what a sulfer filter does. Anyone can jump in and educate me on that one. Please excuse my ignorance.
With the auto water changing (great set ups there too), are you mixing RODI with salt or getting your water from the coast?
There's a story here with regard to water:
When I moved into a new home 9 months ago, I sold my 500 litre tank and bought one 3 times as large (6' long x 3' tall x 2.5' wide ~ 1500 litres with sump). I had a 5 stage RODI unit so I could mix my own water. I bought 3 x 20kg buckets of Reef Pro salt @ $110.00 each. They do 600 litres each, so would cover my total with 300 litres left over. Before I ever opened up any of them, my local LFS asked me "why don't you just call Denis or his son (gave me the mobile numbers)? They deliver all our water up to 5000 litres @ $50 per 1000 litres". He told me that they go out past the reef breaks (Indian Ocean off Perth) and pre filter (only enough to still allow pods and other tiny swimmers in) out large debris then pump it into the truck (looks like a modified fire truck with similar nozzle). So I called him after I bought a 1000 litre potable water IBC storage tank for only $50.00, delivered. I had to 1st cover it with opaque builders plastic sheet to prevent algae. I got 2500 litres of fantastic saltwater for $125.00. He had 25 kg bags of crushed coral on board so I bought 3 for $75.00 - total of $200 for all that can't be beat! I go through the 1000 litre storage water in 8 weeks - 250 litre water change every fortnight. I still have yet to open my salt containers. I put them up for sale but had no takers (even at "make me an offer" prices!) after 6 months. So they sit here for emergencies - I will start to use some when my next batch of Clownfish hatch (3 more nights). After 2 failed attempts due to ill preparation and knowledge, I'm now set up to safely trap (Vossen) and raise them. I won't use that salt for the fry though as I believe they'll do a lot better in the same water they came from. I'm, instead, using it for rotifers, pods and brine shrimp. Why mix when I can simply flick a switch
? I suppose you could collect your own water with some difficulty. A good thing about Western Australia is that the temperature almost never goes to 0° C (32° F) even in the dead of "winter" - in the summer (now here's a lot of heat!), I do my water changes early in the morning after it cools overnight. In the winter, I do them mid afternoon when the sun warms it up. My storage tank sits partially under the eaves on the west side of the house. It's a good place for it.Edit - here's a photo of my old air driven protein skimmer. The hard plastic air line to the lifter is cracked but easily fixed. This one can sit in tank or sump. I bought it in 1988 for $50.00 which was a lot of money at the time! Back then not many companies made them. They didn't even have recommended capacities then - pretty much all guess work. Hard to believe that this skimmer was used on a 6' x 2' x 2' tank and did the job - almost! I really ought to use it. Maybe on my clownfish rearing or quarantine tank?
Might as well show the upper half of my set-up too. The lower half left-most door is behind that old skimmer.
Can't wait to see more photos of the display and its occupants. Great work mate.
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