Come on BRS what the heck?

[siggy]

Or run 2 heaters and offset by .5

 

[Blitheran]

I’ll add that I have experienced the same results with the BRS controller struggling to keep a 1° range (verified with NIST thermometer). BRS Probe in the same chamber as Apex, heaters in the next chamber. Previously with Finnex heater controlled by Apex was less that .5° BUT that was with that EB8 outlet cycling easily a 1-2 hundred times a day. So pick your poison I guess. I also bought into the unit from the advertised benefit of tighter range an less wear on apex outlets. The heater is top quality and well worth the money. The controller I feel is worth what I paid although disappointing.

Welcome to the club

 

[TheHarold]

That's tough for any piece of hardware, why not open the window to .5 or one? Do you think corals are really that susceptible?

Not really relevant to their issue IMO. If it’s advertised as able to keep tanks within .3*, and cannot do it, it doesn’t meet expectations. In theory he could continue using his apex to control it and use the BRS one as an emergency cutoff (set it to 78 or something) , but then it would continue to wear on the apex power bar (defeating the reason he bought it).

Why would anyone want to decrease stability? Regardless of whether that stability is necessary or not.

 

[Potatohead]

I have three inkbirds. Two have the stainless probe and one has the plastic probe. I find the stainless probes are much more responsive. My plastic probed one acts like the OP is saying and will go outside the set parameters a little bit (but still within acceptable range IMO). The steel ones don't... But they also have a lot more water volume than the tank with the plastic probe, so it may not entirely be the probe either.

In any event a 1° temp range (which is a .5° swing) is nothing to worry about.

 

[siggy]

Harold, How did you ever keep a tank before all these fancy gadgets came along.

 

[spsick]

That's tough for any piece of hardware, why not open the window to .5 or one? Do you think corals are really that susceptible?

.6 I believe was my offset window. Susceptible to temp swings? Idk, that’s just what I about for based on what others do and what has worked for me. Realistically 1° prob make hardier corals but that’s not what this discussion is about.

 

[TheHarold]

Harold, How did you ever keep a tank before all these fancy gadgets came along.

I didn’t

I’m not claiming that the OPs temp variation with the BRS controller matters. Mine is much more than that. I’m just saying I follow his logic; it is disappointing that it does not provide the performance that he previously had, despite the .3* claim.

If you drive a car that has a 6 second 0-60, and then buy a car that advertises a 4 second 0-60, it will be disappointing if it really is a 12 second 0-60. Even if you don’t slam the gas that often, if you drive like a grandma haha.

don’t get me wrong, I love BRS, their products and customer service.

 

[Blitheran]

I have three inkbirds. Two have the stainless probe and one has the plastic probe. I find the stainless probes are much more responsive. My plastic probed one acts like the OP is saying and will go outside the set parameters a little bit (but still within acceptable range IMO). The steel ones don't... But they also have a lot more water volume than the tank with the plastic probe, so it may not entirely be the probe either.

In any event a 1° temp range (which is a .5° swing) is nothing to worry about.

I understand 1° Temp range is “ok”. Just disappointed in a product that claimed to swing .3 cannot do it.

 

[Thespammailaccount]

So for Black Friday I purchased their aquarium heater controller. I figured that having my apex power bar flip on and off 12 times because I like to maintain a .5 degree, will help save my power bar’s life whilst, hoping to minimize the temp swings and be even more controlled. Anyhow, I figured I would leave my old apex programming the same on the apex since I want a .3 degree swing. Before if the temp dipped below 77.5 it kicked the heater back on to 78.0. I set the BRS controller to 77.7 back to 78.0. Long story short... this controller was swinging a whole degree based off my apex. I calibrated it, and even temp matched it to my apex and yet it would get to 77.2 before it kicked on yet the BRS controller said it was 77.7 which was it’s “.3” swing.

Now comparing this to my apex heating

All in all, I was disappointed so I called and told them about it and they said that there have been reports that the controller was “finicky” and not maintaining a proper temperature and that they need me to send it in for a testing. So cool, lets see what they come up with. Two days ago I received an email from them saying the controller is fine and I have a heating element that might be “too big” so I am not left with a faulty device. Not very happy.

BRS email:
“Hey there!
I just wanted to reach out and let you know that we tested the heater controller and it performed flawlessly. We tested it for 2 days and the temp held steady with no drift outside the set range. This issue may be that the element you have is over powered heater that is causing the system to over shoot the set temp. Will be sending the controller back today, let me know if you have any questions!


Take care”

Me:
“Hmm... after sending back the heater controller temp has become more in line. Heating element is not overpowered as I am using a 100w BRS titanium heater, in a red sea reefer 170. As you are saying it properly heated the tank for .3 swing at max without any hiccups? “

BRS:
“That would be correct. Based off your tank size the heater is slightly oversized that would result in the temp swings you might see.”

Me:
“Thomas I am finding that statement inconclusive. The red sea reefer is 34 plus 9 gallon sump which puts the total system volume at 43. Not taking into account that the ato has been turned into a refugium so adding about 1 gallon to system overall. Which would be 44 gallons. If we do some math an take the rock and equipment displacement, lets say 6 ish gallons that would put me at 38 gallons overall. I always round up and say 40. On your website you clearly say that the 100w titanium heater is best up to 40 gallons. I am finding this annoying how you can say that it is over heating when I am following your guidelines! “

Sounds about right. I purchased something from them that arrived broken. They pointed me to the piece which I would have to buy to fix the broken part. What?

 

[siggy]

but that’s not what this discussion is about.

I stand corrected.
I program industrial robots. Each robot has specific capabilities, I can follow a very precise path but the faster I go the farther I drift from that path, so I accommodate for that drift if I need that speed or cycle time. Pay now or later but you still pay. You want .1 pay for it

 

[Blitheran]

Sounds about right. I purchased something from them that arrived broken. They pointed me to the piece which I would have to buy to fix the broken part. What?

That doesnt sound right from them. I have had many things broken that they fixed no questions asked. They are an awesome company, but their controller is leaving me to second guess how amazing “BRS” stapled products really are. May ask what broke? I have had them send dozens of t5 bulbs and even ph probes that didnt calibrate properly

 

[spsick]

It would be cool if BRS identified the best location for the temp probe. I wonder if they are testing and achieved the advertised window with probe and element in a single body of water vs a flowing sump.

I love BRS and have been a fanboy since the beginning with nothing but great experiences. It would be great to get them engaged in the discussion for a better outcome for everyone.

 

[Blitheran]

It would be cool if BRS identified the best location for the temp probe. I wonder if they are testing and achieved the advertised window with probe and element in a single body of water vs a flowing sump.

My guess as well...

 

[TheHarold]

It would be cool if BRS identified the best location for the temp probe. I wonder if they are testing and achieved the advertised window with probe and element in a single body of water vs a flowing sump.

Good point! It would be amazing if the controller had PID tuning integrated. That would compensate for delayed feedback; compensate for the exact requirements of the system. @siggy do any of the industrial ones have that?

I know from the context of 3D printer heating elements and thermisters that PID tuning is critical for stability.

OMG it exists!!!

Aquarium temperature controller (PID loop)

Store-bought aquarium heaters suck. It's just that simple. They're cheap too, so maybe the suckage-to-price ratio is correct, but I felt t...

benkrasnow.blogspot.com

 

[siggy]

Good point! It would be amazing if the controller had PID tuning integrated. That would compensate for delayed feedback and any compensate for the exact requirements of the system. @siggy do any of the industrial ones have that?

I have seen a couple on here, google pid loop controllers, Honeywell, omron are good brands.
Now you are paying for .1

 

[TheHarold]

I have seen a couple on here, google pid loop controllers, Honeywell, omron are good brands.
Now you are paying for .1

You could also simulate PID tuning by changing the location of the thermister, correct? Would take longer to figure out the best location, but still effective.

 

[siggy]

It would be cool if BRS identified the best location for the temp probe. I wonder if they are testing and achieved the advertised window with probe and element in a single body of water vs a flowing sump.

I wondered the same when they tested. I just read this and I now wonder if the probe Jack has an effect on readings?

From my Penn controller

Displayed temperature offset allows you to adjust the displayed temperature to the actual sensed temperature in applications where the resistance error in long sensor cable leads cause a deviation in the displayed temperature from the actual sensed temperature.

 

[GreatSouth BayReefs]

I also experienced the BRS heater controller to be off by a few degrees of the set temp even though its programmed to only be a .3 variation. I use a food grade infrared thermometer and the BRS has a LOT of trouble keeping the temp super steady. Luckily the tank I have it on is newer, and the zoas and other easy corals I have in that tank can handle it. I think im going with inkbird for my next controller. BRS one is pretty bad. I love BRS products but can not recommend this one

 

[TheHarold]

I wondered the same when they tested. I just read this and I now wonder if the probe Jack has an effect on readings?

From my Penn controller

Displayed temperature offset allows you to adjust the displayed temperature to the actual sensed temperature in applications where the resistance error in long sensor cable leads cause a deviation in the displayed temperature from the actual sensed temperature.

i don’t think that paragraph is talking about the same thing. That would just be a temperature offset, whereas we are thinking more about moving the probe to change the actual on/off cycle time.

 

[Big C]

You could also simulate PID tuning by changing the location of the thermister, correct? Would take longer to figure out the best location, but still effective.

I tried all three comparts of my sump plus moving the heaters to those different compartments. What I didn’t try was the display. Once I saw how much different the BRS controller reading was from the rest of the probes I just kind of stopped and emailed them. No way can a controller function if the input is bad.