Considering LED - Need Help Please

[arotbart]

Ok. Here is the deal. New build. 224 Gallon 72X30 (front to back)X24 (top to bottom).
Mostly SPS, but some LPS.

I was going to go with 2 400 W MH and approx 8-10 t5 with some supplemental led lights.

Then I rang up cost and spoke to my local 'fish guy' and the tank builder (who has been doing this for 30+yrs).

The cost alone of the initial MH/T5's alone suggest to take a long hard look at LEDs.

So that is what I did, and looked briefly at Acan Lighting, Aqua Illuminations, and Vertex systems. Seems like these fixtures have all the bells and whistles, but want to get as much feedback as I can. I don't have the inclination to go DIY, and if I go with LED's I want to have something that is totally programmable (adjust intensity, dawn dusk, adjust blues/whites/violets, moon cycle, storms, blah....you get the drift), and most importantly, has the right/correct LED's for growth/color comparable to MH/T5's.

Thanks in advance for everyone's reply...

 

[Breakin Newz]

I have AquaIlluminatons Sol Blues and I love them! I have seen the Acan lighting systems up close and personal, I was not impressed with them as much as the AI units....

 

[wld1783]

arotbart

Once you LED you never go back.

Quality fixtures like the Evolution, Maxspec, AI and Wave Point work well.

If you DIY you have a bit more flexibility in choosing High End LEDs and drivers that can be dimmed with a controller and do all the things you want using an APEX or PROFILUX controller. An option would be to have someone build a DIY fixture for you. Some LFS are starting to assemble our kits for their maintenance accounts with great results. Once you start adding in the programming for all the bells and whistles the cost of these commercial fixtures rises quick.

I tested the PAR of our kits and generally speaking 60 3watt LEDs on a 24" heatsink with optics is about the same as a 400 watt MH.

If you go DIY your payback will be 3-4 years. If you go commercial the payback is 4-5 years...Either way you cant go wrong.

Bill

 

[inactive]

If you want all the bells and whistles, it is not going to be cheap by any means.

 

[hwntunda]

If you want all the bells and whistles, it is not going to be cheap by any means.

true dat! nothing in this hobby is cheap...hahaha except freebies....

 

[LILBUDDHA]

"I want to have something that is totally programmable (adjust intensity, dawn dusk, adjust blues/whites/violets, moon cycle, storms, blah....you get the drift), and most importantly, has the right/correct LED's for growth/color comparable to MH/T5's "

Looks like you weeded out your choices real quick .

That leaves .

Acan Lighting K Series (built in hardware )

AI units , AI controller / Profilux , Apex

Pacific Sun - Proud new owner .. built in controller /wireless bluetooth .
Phobos units or New model released specifically with Profilux controller Black Python 160 BETX etc Needs less units to use than AI .

SFILIGOI Genesis , Galaxy Can used with DA, Apex and Profilux controller

Maxspect New Dimmable Series (not released yet )

Vertex Illumina .Built in computer / software . Not sold in US but sold in Canada ...

Good luck with it .

 

[jaytizzle]

May I ask why you're limiting yourself to dimmable models? I'm really curious why people demand this feature so often. Sure it's nice but do you run dimmable MH or T5's? Is it really a dealbreaker? Not trying to incite a riot, just wanting to get some honest opinions.

 

[LILBUDDHA]

If you can hit up pecan2phat on MR he could share a wealth of information . He has a lot of experience with LED's for large tanks .

This is a good thread if R2R will allow me to post the link .

LEDs - Good, Bad or just another addiction? - Manhattan Reefs

 

[arotbart]

thanks for repies-keep them coming.

Keep them coming...the more info I have the better....

Dimmable feature: Well, in reading all the literature, there seems to be this prevailing theme of not burning out your corals. From what I understand (and this is by no means much!), an LED pulse is much more focused and direct as opposed to a MH/T5 which is more spread out....so the thought is with a dimmable option, you can vary the intensity of the light....

Today, I realized that my biggest concern is going from what is true and tested to something relatively new. I mean, I know what I get with MH and T5. I was going to run 2-3 400W Radiums and as many T5's as I can fit. And I know with that combo, anything will flourish. I also know that my electric bill will be about 150.00 bucks more a month (including the chiller's usage), and I will spend about 700.00/year on bulbs. This is 'for sure'

So, is it not really about taking what is available to us as hobbyist and making it as efficient as possible? With that in mind anyone try combo or a hybrid system on a large tank? i.e., MH and LED for instance. I mean the reality is, I don't know that any LED is going to get the coloration that a SE 400W radium bulb will give you, and you know what I am talking about.... so what about using both or all three? Say a 400W Radium in the middle, a couple of T5's in the front and back and some type of LED Module on the sides (maybe to the left and right of the MH?)

 

[LILBUDDHA]

@jaytizzle

For me it was
* I researched and understand that converting to leds should be a slow acclimation process . I do not have to raise or lower the fixture height anymore or use a screen cover etc .
*I can change the color from 12k to 22k . No need to swap bulbs (when i had t5's ) . The same with Halides . I use a dimmable ballast so i have some freeplay with the color .
*I like the fact that I will able to mimic up to 60 minutes sunrise and sunset .
I will now be able to mimic nature's lighting to a certain degree.
*I now will be able to mimic a lunar cycle.
I could not do this with one fixture or type of lighting but I will be able to now .
I could care less as far as the lightning storm simulation , I also understand on some of the features I described above the corals could care less .
HTH

 

[inactive]

You will have a hard time seeing LEDs with 400w halides going imo.

 

[arotbart]

good link to that article....do you know what the lens optics are for the AI Blue? If I am going to go in this direction, with the size tank I will have, seems like have a larger optic is better for my set up.....

 

[LILBUDDHA]

good link to that article....do you know what the lens optics are for the AI Blue? If I am going to go in this direction, with the size tank I will have, seems like have a larger optic is better for my set up.....

AI 's use 40 and 70's

Pac Sun uses 60 super clear if requested .

 

[wld1783]

You will have a hard time seeing LEDs with 400w halides going imo.

YouTube - kraylen's Channel

So its true big fish eat little fish....:sad:

60 Cree XR-E LEDs do quite well against a 400 watt MH just not the spread but with less watts and heat.

Bill

 

[wld1783]

arotbart

The AI are nice.

Bill

 

[Breakin Newz]

YouTube - kraylen's Channel

So its true big fish eat little fish....:sad:

60 Cree XR-E LEDs do quite well against a 400 watt MH just not the spread but with less watts and heat.

Bill

+1 he is correct....

 

[arotbart]

AI

Bill, the AI Sol blue has white Cree XP-G and blue/royal blue XP-E, and they don't wash out 400W MH? This may be the way to go and get the best of both worlds....

The idea is to ramp up the LEDs slowly and run the LED's and T5's for most of the daylight time, but crank up the 400W Radium during peak sun time for like 4-5 hrs max.

I know everyone is in love with these new LEDs but at the end of the day, SPS seem to thrive under those MH (even if its just for like 4-5 hrs or less), and the Radium bulb in particular is just soooooooo sweet......:wink:

 

[texsun]

I have AquaIlluminatons Sol Blues and I love them! I have seen the Acan lighting systems up close and personal, I was not impressed with them as much as the AI units....

Sorry to thread hijack, but can you expand on this? I'm considering both as well. I know the AI is described as a "PAR beast" but the aesthetics especially with the AI rails leave are a little too industrial for my tastes. The Acan seems like a solid product with integrated controller.

 

[wld1783]

Bill, the AI Sol blue has white Cree XP-G and blue/royal blue XP-E, and they don't wash out 400W MH? This may be the way to go and get the best of both worlds....

The idea is to ramp up the LEDs slowly and run the LED's and T5's for most of the daylight time, but crank up the 400W Radium during peak sun time for like 4-5 hrs max.

I know everyone is in love with these new LEDs but at the end of the day, SPS seem to thrive under those MH (even if its just for like 4-5 hrs or less), and the Radium bulb in particular is just soooooooo sweet......:wink:

That's not a bad option. I run T5s in a similar fashion for a 4 hour high noon blast of light.

Just make sure you keep the AI cool. Next to a MH might cause some heat issues. Although with the AI design this should be less than other commercial fixtures.

Bill

 

[moto826]

arotbart

Once you LED you never go back.

Quality fixtures like the Evolution, Maxspec, AI and Wave Point work well.

If you DIY you have a bit more flexibility in choosing High End LEDs and drivers that can be dimmed with a controller and do all the things you want using an APEX or PROFILUX controller. An option would be to have someone build a DIY fixture for you. Some LFS are starting to assemble our kits for their maintenance accounts with great results. Once you start adding in the programming for all the bells and whistles the cost of these commercial fixtures rises quick.

I tested the PAR of our kits and generally speaking 60 3watt LEDs on a 24" heatsink with optics is about the same as a 400 watt MH.

If you go DIY your payback will be 3-4 years. If you go commercial the payback is 4-5 years...Either way you cant go wrong.

Bill

i had maxpect leds and my zoas lost color so i traded them for a chiller and I'm glad i went back