Copper Banded Butterfly Pairing Pains or Aggression?

[Wandering Albatross]

Good morning all, yesterday I got my first of three restocking orders, this one in addition to replacing lost fish had a presumed male/female set of CBB. I'm hoping to pair them. They were added together in the dimmed tank about midday. For a few hours they stayed on opposite sides of the tank, just hovering. One eventually found it's way over to the other. One engaged in light chasing of the other, and the only contact I observed was from the one (presumed male) appearing to nudge the underside of the other. There was also following behavior, where the one would tail the other at about a fish-length away, not chasing just tailing.

This morning, I noticed one is out and very active, the other is hiding. The more active one knows where the other is, and seems interested, but I haven't seen it try to go in after it, he just sits there peeking his head through the cracks from time to time. The hidden one also has some damage to its fin on one side, and I'm unsure if it was the other butterfly or my gramma asserting himself. In the brief moments I've caught the shy one out, the other was quick to chase it. The chasing does seem more intense in the daylight. I know some species have a little dominance war during pairing, is that what this is? Or is it that I ended up with 2 males or females, or just an incompatible set? Only one is doing the chasing, the other hasn't fought back yet.

 

[exnisstech]

I paired mine but tye female was established when I added the male. She attacked the male and I had to remove him. After he healed up in reintroduced the male using am acclimation box. After a week or so I took the lid off and the female swam in, introduced herself and escorted the male out into the tank.

They were best buds after that.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I paired mine but tye female was established when I added the male. She attacked the male and I had to remove him. After he healed up in reintroduced the male using am acclimation box. After a week or so I took the lid off and the female swam in, introduced herself and escorted the male out into the tank.

They were best buds after that.

So, it is possible the female was doing the chasing then? I thought it might be the male since it was nudging the underside at first, looked rather courtship-like compared to what I'm seeing now. They're about the same size, and when they move slowly, it appears that their foreheads slope differently, which was the main indicator used to attempt to select a male/female set. They were added simultaneously though so who knows.

I caught the one being chased and moved him/her over to the nearly empty 50g for the time being, to heal and such. I can try to reintroduce them again a little later using my acclimation box. I do have a few more fish that still need to come in though, and I'm considering using the acclimation box for them as well, so timing will be key. I have 2 ruby finned fairy wrasse and 2 canarytop wrasse juveniles to introduce to an established male of each, going for trio harems. 2 juvenile/female disbars to introduce to an established male disbar, a trio of purple queens, and 6 blue/green chromis. And 1 or 2 female royal grammas to an established male. These will be coming in 2-3 separate orders, but I'm most concerned about the disbars and the grammas, as Bruiser my resident gramma can get testy close to his cave, but he's been out and about more near where his mate was lost, as if looking for her, so I'm hoping he's in 'hey baby' mode. The current disbar, the purple queens, and the chromis do occasionally jockey for position, and I'm worried they might get a mob mentality. But I want my disbar trio back too.

 

[exnisstech]

My situation was a bit different I think so I can't really comment on the behaviour of your two. My female had been in the tank for a year and when I added the male she immediately attacked and pinned him in a corner. I had to remove and let him heal. Then as described above I reintroduced him using the box.
It sounds like you may be introducing two at once which I have no experience with.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

My situation was a bit different I think so I can't really comment on the behaviour of your two. My female had been in the tank for a year and when I added the male she immediately attacked and pinned him in a corner. I had to remove and let him heal. Then as described above I reintroduced him using the box.
It sounds like you may be introducing two at once which I have no experience with.

Perhaps I can allow one to get established and let the other heal up, then let them meet with the acclimation box. They were both totally new to the tank last night, but perhaps trying it this way will be safer for both.

As for the other additions, anyone have any extra tips on adding these new fish to established fish if the same type? All my paired/harem style groups were added simultaneously before, so I didn’t need to worry about territorial behavior between same-species fish at the time. I’m hoping juveniles or females to an established male will be better tolerated.

 

[Louis Z]

I could never pair up grammas safely . I went to aquatic studios in Dallas and there they had 5 of them in a 30gish tank . They were all living together without any aggression . . So I asked and they said to add in min of 5 at a time . Then went to Dallas north and they also had a group of 6 together in the tank . . I may have been approaching this all wrong . Tried 2at a time . Usually had to separate them . So I may try to purchase overtime a group of them and add them to the 125 at the same time . And see what happens . I just don’t want to go thru purchasing 5 at one time and putting them thru QT in five separate systems . I may have to build 4 glass partitions and put in a 20long to keep them apart until cleared.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I could never pair up grammas safely . I went to aquatic studios in Dallas and there they had 5 of them in a 30gish tank . They were all living together without any aggression . . So I asked and they said to add in min of 5 at a time . Then went to Dallas north and they also had a group of 6 together in the tank . . I may have been approaching this all wrong . Tried 2at a time . Usually had to separate them . So I may try to purchase overtime a group of them and add them to the 125 at the same time . And see what happens . I just don’t want to go thru purchasing 5 at one time and putting them thru QT in five separate systems . I may have to build 4 glass partitions and put in a 20long to keep them apart until cleared.

I always thought that fish logic never made sense. When they know they’re in a closed system and have no other options to breed with, why do they both still try to go male? I get biology wise the dominant fish gets to spawn more, but if they both end up male neither one gets to spawn. Having to get a sizable group to maybe get a couple that are smart enough to realize that is resource intensive. Great planning there Darwin, I’m beginning to think he’s in league with the LFS…

 

[Louis Z]

I am crazy to want to spend 250 for a Royal grama colony

 

[4roaming]

I am crazy to want to spend 250 for a Royal grama colony

You can get them from KP aquatics for $25ea if it helps

 

[Louis Z]

I often see that he has limited supply of them at a time .. I have ordered from them before . When I mail order I have to have a large order to offset the shipping . Whether or not I meet their minimum. When I see at the lfs they are in the 40s . I have two petcos that are within hour distance. If they have them in they are around high 30s and I have to coincide with their 25% off to get them cheaper , Good thing is that I am very patient and can wait a year . Qt has taught me to be patient . I have fish that I have had in my care for over 9 years now . I try to be diligent in what I add , for my 2 wild yellow tangs have been with me since the very beginning of the 125 .