Copper safe and formalin together

[WrasseyReefer]

Hi everyone, has anyone treated their qt with both copper safe (not ionic copper) at therapeutic level (>2.0 ppm) and formalin (25 ppm/day) at the same time to treat both velvet/ich and brookynella? I’ve been consulting with Jay Hemdal about my current situation, and he said he has not tried copper safe (chelated copper) with formalin, so he can’t recommend it. He said ionic copper with formalin is fine, but I’m using copper safe, because I have more sensitive fish that might not handle ionic copper well. I have full respect for Jay’s opinions and experience and am definitely cautious about combining the two meds given his advice. However, I’m wondering if anyone might have tried copper safe and formalin together successfully. I have some sick fish that we’ve been struggling to diagnose. They have seemed to show improvement with the copper safe. However, we’re still seeing some symptoms that could be Brookynella. I am concerned about removing them for a formalin bath, as moving them has proven to really stress them out and has already killed several fish. Thanks for your help.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi everyone, has anyone treated their qt with both copper safe (not ionic copper) at therapeutic level (>2.0 ppm) and formalin (25 ppm/day) at the same time to treat both velvet/ich and brookynella? I’ve been consulting with Jay Hemdal about my current situation, and he said he has not tried copper safe (chelated copper) with formalin, so he can’t recommend it. He said ionic copper with formalin is fine, but I’m using copper safe, because I have more sensitive fish that might not handle ionic copper well. I have full respect for Jay’s opinions and experience and am definitely cautious about combining the two meds given his advice. However, I’m wondering if anyone might have tried copper safe and formalin together successfully. I have some sick fish that we’ve been struggling to diagnose. They have seemed to show improvement with the copper safe. However, we’re still seeing some symptoms that could be Brookynella. I am concerned about removing them for a formalin bath, as moving them has proven to really stress them out and has already killed several fish. Thanks for your help.

I would suggest you treat with one - followed by the other. If the fish are doing worse, change to the other - it's often best to follow up in one thread rather than multiple. Just because someone has experience with formalin and copper - does not mean they have expertise - I would trust what jay said - and not post duplicate threads? (I assume thats what you did)?

 

[WrasseyReefer]

I would suggest you treat with one - followed by the other. If the fish are doing worse, change to the other - it's often best to follow up in one thread rather than multiple. Just because someone has experience with formalin and copper - does not mean they have expertise - I would trust what jay said - and not post duplicate threads? (I assume thats what you did)?

Fish are looking better with copper, as stated above, so I’m sticking with that. However, Jay was saying that he did see something that could indicate brook as well. Then later, after the posting of this thread, he said that he did not see symptoms of brook. I have been following up with Jay consistently in the other thread. I am not seeking to go around jay’s advice and have no plans to add formalin with copper.

I agree that just because someone has experience with formalin and copper does not mean they have expertise, and I never said that was the case.

I’m not duplicating threads. The other thread is about diagnostics of my qt, which is not the purpose of this thread. I am not seeking diagnostic advice here. I apologize if that wasn’t clear based on my original post. This thread is simply asking if others have experience (not expertise) in using these two medications together since Jay stated that he does not have that experience.

If someone says they have experience using the two medications together, that does not mean that I will repeat their treatment, as stated in my original post: “I have full respect for Jay’s opinions and experience and am definitely cautious about combining the two meds given his advice.”

I am simply curious to see if anyone has used the two medications together, whether successfully or unsuccessfully. There is always room for learning in this hobby, and if someone has tried something, I am curious about the results. That does not mean that I will take that experience to mean that it is safe or something that I will repeat, especially without proper expertise.

Thank you for your opinion about treating with one. I know it can be potentially dangerous to treat with multiple medications. It can be tricky when there looks to be multiple issues.

 

[WrasseyReefer]

Also, unfortunately, there isn’t always time to wait to treat velvet and brookynella separately, given how quickly both of these infections tend to kill fish. It would be great if there was a way to treat for both velvet and brookynella at the same time in a qt tank with chelated copper as is okay to do with ionic copper and formalin, per Jay. I know one could do a formalin bath outside of the qt tank to treat for brookynella, but being moved could be more stressful for fish than a concurrent in tank treatment.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Also, unfortunately, there isn’t always time to wait to treat velvet and brookynella separately, given how quickly both of these infections tend to kill fish. It would be great if there was a way to treat for both velvet and brookynella at the same time in a qt tank with chelated copper as is okay to do with ionic copper and formalin, per Jay. I know one could do a formalin bath outside of the qt tank to treat for brookynella, but being moved could be more stressful for fish than a concurrent in tank treatment.

Chloroquine Phosphate would be a safe alternative

 

[WrasseyReefer]

Chloroquine Phosphate would be a safe alternative

Thanks for your input.

Chloroquine phosphate treats both velvet and brookynella (and ich and uronema), correct? Seems like a great drug to have on hand. And then all you’d need is prazi and antibiotics to cover your bases.

I think I haven’t tried chloroquine phosphate, because it’s difficult to get ahold of, correct? And it’s expensive. And the difficultly with biodegradation of the medication.

How do fairy wrasses, leopard wrasses, and mandarins handle chloroquine phosphate? Any fish that should not be treated with chloroquine phosphate? I read on @Humblefish, “(DO NOT USE with Hippo Tangs, anthias and flasher wrasses.” I have an anthias in qt right now, so I guess I could only use this as an option if it didn’t include the above listed fish.

Thanks for your help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for your input.

Chloroquine phosphate treats both velvet and brookynella (and ich and uronema), correct? Seems like a great drug to have on hand. And then all you’d need is prazi and antibiotics to cover your bases.

I think I haven’t tried chloroquine phosphate, because it’s difficult to get ahold of, correct? I believe you need a vet’s prescription? And it’s expensive. And the difficultly with biodegradation of the medication.

How do fairy wrasses, leopard wrasses, and mandarins handle chloroquine phosphate? Any fish that should not be treated with chloroquine phosphate? I read on @Humblefish, “(DO NOT USE with Hippo Tangs, anthias and flasher wrasses.” I have an anthias in qt right now, so I guess I could only use this as an option if it didn’t include the above listed fish.

Thanks for your help.

Yes, and with delicate fish, use lower concentration Or go with two step- Coppersafe followed by ruby rally pro or 37% formaldehyde diluted

 

[WrasseyReefer]

Yes, and with delicate fish, use lower concentration Or go with two step- Coppersafe followed by ruby rally pro or 37% formaldehyde diluted

What’s your opinion on giving all new incoming fish a 30-60 min formalin bath before going into qt? I haven’t done this, because there’s all that talk about shortened life in fish exposed to formalin, and the fact that it is a carcinogen. But it would be nice to eliminate brook as a possibility right off the bat. Any fish that don’t handle formalin baths well?

 

[vetteguy53081]

What’s your opinion on giving all new incoming fish a 30-60 min formalin bath before going into qt? I haven’t done this, because there’s all that talk about shortened life in fish exposed to formalin, and the fact that it is a carcinogen. But it would be nice to eliminate brook as a possibility right off the bat. Any fish that don’t handle formalin baths well?

I give mine ruby rally Pro Baths

 

[WrasseyReefer]

I give mine ruby rally Pro Baths

Do you give all incoming fish a ruby pro bath before entering qt? Or do you wait for symptoms of brook? Any fish that don’t handle ruby pro well?

 

[speedjester]

Do you give all incoming fish a ruby pro bath before entering qt? Or do you wait for symptoms of brook? Any fish that don’t handle ruby pro well?

I use RR pro on everything before entering quarantine and before moving to main Dt. I’ve done Tangs, wrass, sharks, rays, eels.. pretty much everything. No I’ll effects