Coral Fish Tank Currently Has Ich

[southeastfishaddict]

So my tank has ich and many fish have died and some are still sick. I’m currently treating the DP tank with PolypLab, not sure if it will help. I have a large tank with lots of rock, so it will be extremely difficult to take out the fish. My question is, if I buy fish that have been treated(medicated) with copper can I add them to the tank or would they get sick as well?

Thank you I’m advance for any feedback that you can provide.

 

[blecki]

They will also get sick.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Thanks blecki, which leads me to my next question .. why quarantine and medicate anything then? I thought that by doing a quarantine and medicating the fish, that it would be immune to getting sick. I’m sure that most of the fish at the LFS have been contaminated with ich, since most of them use the same nets to pull them out and other items.

 

[blecki]

It's the same as people. You quarantine to stop the disease spreading.

You're supposed to QT and medicate before they get into your tank, so that they don't bring the disease with them. It doesn't make them immune to anything.

You're not QTing to protect the new fish - you're doing it to protect the fish already in the tank. But if the tank already has ich, any new fish added will be exposed to it.

I really doubt the nets at the LFS are factors in disease at all. The tanks at your LFS are not closed systems. Usually entire banks of them run off the same sump. Any disease in one is in all no matter what nets they use.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Thanks blecki, which leads me to my next question .. why quarantine and medicate anything then? I thought that by doing a quarantine and medicating the fish, that it would be immune to getting sick. I’m sure that most of the fish at the LFS have been contaminated with ich, since most of them use the same nets to pull them out and other items.

The point of medicated quarantine isn't immunity - it's eradication and prevention of disease.

Medicating the fish (with copper or hyposalinity for ich) kills the disease on the fish, and quarantining everything else wet (inverts, macroalgae, live rock/live sand, corals, etc.) allows time for the fish diseases and parasites on them to die off (no fish to feed on = no more parasites).

By medicating properly and quarantining properly, you prevent diseases from being in the tank at all - the fish aren't immune to the disease (so introducing a sick fish or a parasite-carrying invert to the tank may mean all the fish get sick and die), but they don't have anything in the tank that could make them sick in the first place.

Edit: Blecki explained it better above - medicated QT of fish and fallow (fishless) QT of inverts/other things take place before putting anything wet in the tank.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

True, people do quarantine, but using the covid vaccine as an example. People get treated with the vaccine, so that it can help them be immune to the sickness. That’s where I’m aiming at with my initial question. Since the new fish has been medicated, would it just get the sniffles if you were to put it in the ich tank?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

True, people do quarantine, but using the covid vaccine as an example. People get treated with the vaccine, so that it can help them be immune to the sickness. That’s where I’m aiming at with my initial question. Since the new fish has been medicated, would it just get the sniffles if you were to put it in the ich tank?

Ich is not a virus!!!

 

[southeastfishaddict]

The point of medicated quarantine isn't immunity - it's eradication and prevention of disease.

Medicating the fish (with copper or hyposalinity for ich) kills the disease on the fish, and quarantining everything else wet (inverts, macroalgae, live rock/live sand, corals, etc.) allows time for the fish diseases and parasites on them to die off (no fish to feed on = no more parasites).

By medicating properly and quarantining properly, you prevent diseases from being in the tank at all - the fish aren't immune to the disease (so introducing a sick fish or a parasite-carrying invert to the tank may mean all the fish get sick and die), but they don't have anything in the tank that could make them sick in the first place.

Edit: Blecki explained it better above - medicated QT of fish and fallow (fishless) QT of inverts/other things take place before putting anything wet in the tank.

I agree with everything that you said, except for the latter part… but they don’t have anything in the tank that could make them sick in the first place? Anything can make them sick, like a fluctuation in temperature, a bad serving of food or sudden aggression from another fish. So if they get sick, can that cause an ich outbreak and now all of the fish should be pulled out and quarantined ?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Since the new fish has been medicated, would it just get the sniffles if you were to put it in the ich tank?

No. Consider if your child had lice. You keep them away from everyone else until the treatment kills all the lice, eggs, etc. The child is not now "immune" to lice. If you send him to a slumber party where other kids have lice, he's just as likely to get them again as any other kid.

You treat the fish to kill the ich.
You treat the tank to kill the ich there so that when you add your (ich-free) fish, there is no ich there to infect it.
(Actually, fish aren't "infected" much as "infested"... much like the child with lice)

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Ich is not a virus!!!

If it’s not a virus what is it!?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I agree with everything that you said, except for the latter part… but they don’t have anything in the tank that could make them sick in the first place? Anything can make them sick, like a fluctuation in temperature, a bad serving of food or sudden aggression from another fish. So if they get sick, can that cause an ich outbreak and now all of the fish should be pulled out and quarantined ?

If there is zero ich in a tank, then an ich-free fish cannot just magically become infected... stress can and does weaken the immune system making organisms more susceptible to pathogens and parasites, but lowered immunity alone will not cause an ich outbreak.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

If it’s not a virus what is it!?

A parasite, lol!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

True, people do quarantine, but using the covid vaccine as an example. People get treated with the vaccine, so that it can help them be immune to the sickness. That’s where I’m aiming at with my initial question. Since the new fish has been medicated, would it just get the sniffles if you were to put it in the ich tank?

To date, the only things I'm aware of that you can do to strengthen a fish's immunity to any illness are all parts of proper husbandry - in other words, maintain a good environment for it, good water quality for it, and good feeding for it.

IIRC, there has been some discussion on vaccinations for fish on here before, and the vaccines aren't worth the effort yet.

Also, as mentioned above, ich isn't a bacteria or virus - it's a parasite (same with velvet, flukes, etc.). Even with modern human medicine, to my knowledge we still generally treat parasites rather than immunize against them.

Ich and other serious fish diseases don't just pop up from nowhere - they're either in a tank or they're not; the things you mentioned (poor feeding, temperature fluctuation, etc.) can all harm fish, but they're not diseases - they're husbandry issues, and even a perfectly healthy, not sick at all, prime condition fish can die from poor husbandry (it just takes a lot more of it to kill them than a sickly fish).

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Read some of the sticky threads in this forum.

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[southeastfishaddict]

No. Consider if your child had lice. You keep them away from everyone else until the treatment kills all the lice, eggs, etc. The child is not now "immune" to lice. If you send him to a slumber party where other kids have lice, he's just as likely to get them again as any other kid.

You treat the fish to kill the ich.
You treat the tank to kill the ich there so that when you add your (ich-free) fish, there is no ich there to infect it.
(Actually, fish aren't "infected" much as "infested"... much like the child with lice)

No. Consider if your child had lice. You keep them away from everyone else until the treatment kills all the lice, eggs, etc. The child is not now "immune" to lice. If you send him to a slumber party where other kids have lice, he's just as likely to get them again as any other kid.

You treat the fish to kill the ich.
You treat the tank to kill the ich there so that when you add your (ich-free) fish, there is no ich there to infect it.
(Actually, fish aren't "infected" much as "infested"... much like the child with lice)

Okay, that example makes a little bit more sense. So if one kid has lice, should all of the children from the classroom or the slumber party get medicated or only those with noticeable symptoms, scratching and rubbing or visually..

 

[blecki]

True, people do quarantine, but using the covid vaccine as an example. People get treated with the vaccine, so that it can help them be immune to the sickness. That’s where I’m aiming at with my initial question. Since the new fish has been medicated, would it just get the sniffles if you were to put it in the ich tank?

Quarantining is not a vaccination. Believe me - if you invent a vaccine for marine ich or velvet - you will get very rich very quickly. It won't be hobbyists paying you, either, it will be every professional aquarium and fishery on the planet.

Okay, that example makes a little bit more sense. So if one kid has lice, should all of the children from the classroom or the slumber party get medicated or only those with noticeable symptoms, scratching and rubbing or visually..

The difference between lice on children and parasites on fish is that we can look at the child's head and determine if they have lice or not. And if you want to continue this analogy, realize that treating for lice is more than just special shampoo - it also involves washing all their bedding, clothes, treating carpets in the home, etc.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

To date, the only things I'm aware of that you can do to strengthen a fish's immunity to any illness are all parts of proper husbandry - in other words, maintain a good environment for it, good water quality for it, and good feeding for it.

IIRC, there has been some discussion on vaccinations for fish on here before, and the vaccines aren't worth the effort yet.

Also, as mentioned above, ich isn't a bacteria or virus - it's a parasite (same with velvet, flukes, etc.). Even with modern human medicine, to my knowledge we still generally treat parasites rather than immunize against them.

Ich and other serious fish diseases don't just pop up from nowhere - they're either in a tank or they're not; the things you mentioned (poor feeding, temperature fluctuation, etc.) can all harm fish, but they're not diseases - they're husbandry issues, and even a perfectly healthy, not sick at all, prime condition fish can die from poor husbandry (it just takes a lot more of it to kill them than a sickly fish).

Well I’ve been doing both for my fish .. I’ve been feeding very quality food 3 to 4 times a day and have been testing water consistently and changing the water often. That’s the most frustrating part of all of this. I feel like if all of my efforts, time & money have gone for not. & now i have an upset wife as well‍

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Quarantining is not a vaccination. Believe me - if you invent a vaccine for marine ich or velvet - you will get very rich very quickly. It won't be hobbyists paying you, either, it will be every professional aquarium and fishery on the planet.


The difference between lice on children and parasites on fish is that we can look at the child's head and determine if they have lice or not. And if you want to continue this analogy, realize that treating for lice is more than just special shampoo - it also involves washing all their bedding, clothes, treating carpets in the home, etc.

Quarantining is not a vaccination. Believe me - if you invent a vaccine for marine ich or velvet - you will get very rich very quickly. It won't be hobbyists paying you, either, it will be every professional aquarium and fishery on the planet.


The difference between lice on children and parasites on fish is that we can look at the child's head and determine if they have lice or not. And if you want to continue this analogy, realize that treating for lice is more than just special shampoo - it also involves washing all their bedding, clothes, treating carpets in the home, etc.

True, but keep in mind that I said medicating not just quarantining. I said medicating with copper.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Okay, that example makes a little bit more sense. So if one kid has lice, should all of the children from the classroom or the slumber party get medicated or only those with noticeable symptoms, scratching and rubbing or visually..

A parent CAN treat their child for lice even without symptoms, but humans with lice is a different situation than fish with ich in that humans can be inspected very well to identify lice and/or eggs. (am I the only one who remembers the class going to the nurse's office to have my hair checked for lice? They used tongue depressers if I recall correctly, lol).


Even if a kid in the class has lice and another gets it later on (due to exposure to something the first kid was wearing, etc), lice does not kill people. We need to do the best we can to prevent our pets from getting sick, so we do things a little differently.

Let me know if that makes sense.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

A parent CAN treat their child for lice even without symptoms, but humans with lice is a different situation than fish with ich in that humans can be inspected very well to identify lice and/or eggs. (am I the only one who remembers the class going to the nurse's office to have my hair checked for lice? They used tongue depressers if I recall correctly, lol).


Even if a kid in the class has lice and another gets it later on (due to exposure to something the first kid was wearing, etc), lice does not kill people. We need to do the best we can to prevent our pets from getting sick, so we do things a little differently.

Let me know if that makes sense.

yes, makes more sense. I guess prevention is key to our success, of course, nothing is billet proof, but it helps out our chances. It does require a lot more effort, however, and it may become a part time or full time job for some folks. Unfortunately, I don’t have that luxury.