Coral Plate dead?

[LozziLuck]

Ok only 3 months in. Today I noticed my coral plate looks odd, no flowing but is still a little green. Is it dead or almost head? If not dead what can I do to help it stay alive?

 

[smitten with ocean life]

i dont think its dead. but def not happy. i would try moving it. is it getting a lot of flow? does it have sand on it? maybe try moving it in the shade of a rock and see if that help

 

[JoJosReef]

Same. Not dead. These guys can bounce back from pretty grave conditions, but I usually keep them surrounded by something like rubble or mounds of zoas to prevent flow from moving the sand around them too much. Are you feeding yours? They do mich better when fed, in my experience.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

It would be white if it was dead, it has lots of color so it can still rebound. Yours looks like its turning brown, or maybe its the picture coloring? If its turning brown, I suspect perhaps not enough light. What kind of light do you have on what size of tank?

 

[VintageReefer]

It’s not dead but it’s stressed, not inflating and retracted. Plate corals have low survival rates on the sand. Elevate it slightly. The sand/crushed coral is sharp and pointy has caused all of the outer perimeter to recede. I feel confident this is the primary issue

 

[VintageReefer]

Try putting on a 3” or 4” grow out tile / disk

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[Anna K]

I trust @VintageReefer advice on the coral plates. You can check out his thread, and his plates are on them and are stunning. I hope your guy gets a speedy recovery, but he's definitely not dead. When you see white, that's when you should become super alarmed.

 

[thamnasteroid]

Still alive; not necessarily stressed. This his how plates look like in the wild

 

[thamnasteroid]

Try putting on a 3” or 4” grow out tile / disk

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Wouldn't recommend; Cycloseris are free-living; doing so would prolly irritate it or it would just detach from the tile after a while

 

[VintageReefer]

Wouldn't recommend; Cycloseris are free-living; doing so would prolly irritate it or it would just detach from the tile after a while

Your talking from books. I’m talking from experience. They dont need to be free living and those that allow it, typically end up with dead plates.

I have been growing plates a long time and I spent many years suddenly losing plates in the same manner as above, and once I started to eliminate sand and mounting them on tiles and plugs, my success rate increased dramatically to 100%.

I have sold plates to people that tell me that can’t keep plates alive. I have given them specific instructions, and they write back to me a few months later saying it’s doubled in size and they can’t believe it

I have done this over and over and I start with tiny 1/2” babies, mount to plugs, and put in racks

And after a few months they are 1”-1.5” and ready for sale

And I’ve kept one for myself longterm and it’s doing perfectly fine on it’s plug stationary it’s whole life

I’ve never had one detach or be stressed, and neither have my buyers. One person removed his from the plug against my advice. That plate was in a new spot every few days. I told him this was risky. Then one night it landed upside down in the sand and he woke up to a dead plate completely receding and eroding.

 

[thamnasteroid]

Your talking from books. I’m talking from experience. They dont need to be free living and those that allow it, typically end up with dead plates.

I have been growing plates a long time and I spent many years suddenly losing plates in the same manner as above, and once I started to eliminate sand and mounting them on tiles and plugs, my success rate increased dramatically to 100%.

I have sold plates to people that tell me that can’t keep plates alive. I have given them specific instructions, and they write back to me a few months later saying it’s doubled in size and they can’t believe it

I have done this over and over and I start with tiny 1/2” babies, mount to plugs, and put in racks

And after a few months they are 1”-1.5” and ready for sale

And I’ve kept one for myself longterm and it’s doing perfectly fine on it’s plug stationary it’s whole life

I’ve never had one detach or be stressed, and neither have my buyers. One person removed his from the plug against my advice. That plate was in a new spot every few days. I told him this was risky. Then one night it landed upside down in the sand and he woke up to a dead plate completely receding and eroding.

Your corals are Heliofungia fralinae, and also are likely still in the anthocaulus stage. OP's coral is a Cycloseris, and is already in the anthocyathus stage. In order to glue down his plate, they would have to scratch off part of the flesh that covers the underside, which would stress it out more.

The plate also doesn't really look stressed, just uninflated, which is completely normal. Compare with these specimens:
Cycloseris sp. | Komodo National Park, Indonesia | Credit: me!!

Cycloseris sp. | Luzon, Philippines | Credit: Josy Lai

 

[VintageReefer]

Your corals are Heliofungia fralinae, and also are likely still in the anthocaulus stage. OP's coral is a Cycloseris, and is already in the anthocyathus stage. In order to glue down his plate, they would have to scratch off part of the flesh that covers the underside, which would stress it out more.

The plate also doesn't really look stressed, just uninflated, which is completely normal. Compare with these specimens:
Cycloseris sp. | Komodo National Park, Indonesia | Credit: me!!

Cycloseris sp. | Luzon, Philippines | Credit: Josy Lai

My principles apply to multiple species of plates. All my plates do great on plugs out of the sand. And I’m pointing out signs of health, not color

And you’ll notice, without sand to irritate the edges, the flesh on my plate happily grows over the outer edge

This plate has dark flesh around the outer edge. It’s not receded, it’s just dark flesh and you can tell because it is smooth and you aren’t seeing skeletal ridges on that edge

This one is easier to see the flesh extends all around due to the color

The plate in post 1 is receded all along the perimeter that is exposed to sand. I have seen this over and over, in my own plates and in others. The issue is the sand

The green flesh doesn’t grow over the edge.

Also, from your reference pics of wild plates,

This one looks nearly dead, very much bleached and retracted.

This one does look healthy, but, both are on rocks and not exposed to the sand which is what I claim is the irritant for OP

It does have flesh growing over the edge, however the plate is elevated and there is no sand. More of a soft silt in some areas and propped off a surface in others

 

[thamnasteroid]

My principles apply to multiple species of plates. All my plates do great on plugs out of the sand. And I’m pointing out signs of health, not color

And you’ll notice, without sand to irritate the edges, the flesh on my plate happily grows over the outer edge

This plate has dark flesh around the outer edge. It’s not receded, it’s just dark flesh and you can tell because it is smooth and you aren’t seeing skeletal ridges on that edge

This one is easier to see the flesh extends all around due to the color

The plate in post 1 is receded all along the perimeter that is exposed to sand. I have seen this over and over, in my own plates and in others. The issue is the sand

The green flesh doesn’t grow over the edge.

Also, from your reference pics of wild plates,

This one looks nearly dead, very much bleached and retracted.

This one does look healthy, but, both are on rocks and not exposed to the sand which is what I claim is the irritant for OP

It does have flesh growing over the edge, however the plate is elevated and there is no sand. More of a soft silt in some areas and propped off a surface in others

The first wild photo is very much alive; you can see the stoma in the in the center. Cycloseris sometimes come in white.
Here are some that are on the sand:
Cycloseris sp. | Bali, Indonesia | Credit: Frank Krasovec

Cycloseris sp. | Bali, Indonesia | Credit: Scott and Jeanette Johnson

Cycloseris vaughani | Kwajelein, Marshall Islands | Credit: Scott and Jeanette Johnson

Cycloseris sp. | Negros, Philippines | Credit: Ingo Rogalla

Cycloseris sp. | Lembeh Strait, Indonesia | Credit: Sylvain le Bris

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok only 3 months in. Today I noticed my coral plate looks odd, no flowing but is still a little green. Is it dead or almost head? If not dead what can I do to help it stay alive?

Ive seen dead ones like these come back several times. Keep the sand off of it and base off the sand

 

[VintageReefer]

The first wild photo is very much alive; you can see the stoma in the in the center.

Even if you are dying you are still alive.
That’s all that’s left of it

Cycloseris sometimes come in white.
Here are some that are on the sand:
Cycloseris sp. | Bali, Indonesia | Credit: Frank Krasovec

Skeletal rim erosion ^

Cycloseris sp. | Bali, Indonesia | Credit: Scott and Jeanette Johnson

Appears ok, but this looks more like dirt or silt

Cycloseris vaughani | Kwajelein, Marshall Islands | Credit: Scott and Jeanette Johnson

Very nice ^ I can’t sell if that’s eroding or shadow

Cycloseris sp. | Negros, Philippines | Credit: Ingo Rogalla

Tissue erosion along sand line on left and right

Cycloseris sp. | Lembeh Strait, Indonesia | Credit: Sylvain le Bris

Great example of sand damage. The left side is bleached out and was probably covered by a pile of sand, just like the right side is. Removing the sand on the right likely will have a damage spot like the left has

The point is - sand has a very high possibility and likely hood of causing damage. Our reefs are our ecosystem and we can control a lot of variables. Sand is a variable and often a culprit in plate damage and deaths.

They don’t need sand at all. They don’t need to move. We can control this and eliminate the variable and greatly increase their chances of survival and healing when needed.

We all just need to get out of this mentality that “they need to be in the sand” or “they should be in the sand”. Maybe in the wild they live there, and take damage, and heal, or take damage and die, or don’t take damage…that’s the ocean and it’s natural

In our tank, it doesn’t need to be this way and it will be less stressful for them to be placed in a safer spot that avoids sand contact, and prevents them from accidentally moving somewhere unsafe

 

[JoJosReef]

Mine sit on the sand, but there is generally very little sand movement because I create a barrier of zoa mounds in a half circle around them (other half the glass barrier).

 

[thamnasteroid]

Even if you are dying you are still alive.
That’s all that’s left of it

It's very much healthy. We're just not used to white corals in the hobby because we don't get them imported very often.

Skeletal rim erosion ^

I don't get your point about this; corals just aren't as inflated in the wild.

Appears ok, but this looks more like dirt or silt

Sand, dirt, silt, what's the difference? It's all particulate substrate.

Tissue erosion along sand line on left and right

On the left, maybe, but not on the right. You can tell by the smooth continuum between the two shades of grey.

Great example of sand damage. The left side is bleached out and was probably covered by a pile of sand, just like the right side is. Removing the sand on the right likely will have a damage spot like the left has

Normal for plates; particulates get on them–they can slough it off.

We all just need to get out of this mentality that “they need to be in the sand” or “they should be in the sand”. Maybe in the wild they live there, and take damage, and heal, or take damage and die, or don’t take damage…that’s the ocean and it’s natural

In our tank, it doesn’t need to be this way and it will be less stressful for them to be placed in a safer spot that avoids sand contact, and prevents them from accidentally moving somewhere unsafe

Sand contact is only harmful if it gets on top of the corallum, which would only happen from either high flow or interference.

I concede that moving them to a solid substrate may very well be fine, but the sand is not likely to be the problem, and gluing an already free-living specimen will not be good for the coral.

 

[VintageReefer]

Mine sit on the sand, but there is generally very little sand movement because I create a barrier of zoa mounds in a half circle around them (other half the glass barrier).

That plates come so far <snif snif> they grow up so fast!

 

[JoJosReef]

That plates come so far <snif snif> they grow up so fast!

It really has! From a button-sized skeleton without even a mouth to one of my most beautiful corals!

 

[VintageReefer]

It's very much healthy. We're just not used to white corals in the hobby because we don't get them imported very often.

It is hard to claim that it’s healthy because we see a mouth, the mouth is the last part to erode. I can not see any flesh in that picture aside from the mouth. A healthy and happy white plate would look like this

But hey. Maybe it’s alive and just ticked off and completely retracted.

I don't get your point about this; corals just aren't as inflated in the wild.

The outer perimeter is bleached from irritation. It’s the only part on contact with sand. Why do you feel they dont inflate in the wild? I’ve seen plenty of pics of inflated wild plates. It’s a matter of conditions

Sand, dirt, silt, what's the difference? It's all particulate substrate.

It makes a huge difference. Sand when magnified is like tiny broken shards of glass. It is sharp and jagged. LPS tissue is soft, and they do not like contact with sand, a few grains of sand wedged in skeletal ridges will prevent them from extending flesh over it. Or can cause damage during attempts. This is not isolated to plates. Many lps including trachy and wellso can be stressed and damaged from sand contact

Silt and dirt when felt, and magnified, are smooth and soft. Much less likely to cause stress or damage.

On the left, maybe, but not on the right. You can tell by the smooth continuum between the two shades of grey.

It’s beginning stages. Seen it many times. The loss of color in that area is how it starts. Just because a plate is in the wild does not mean it’s healthy

Normal for plates; particulates get on them–they can slough it off.

Not always true. They often cant. This plate had sand land on it and was not able to remove it on its own, and the owner did not intervene. And half the flesh was lost directly under where the sand piled up

Sand contact is only harmful if it gets on top of the corallum, which would only happen from either high flow or interference.

It can be anywhere and I welcome you to take a lps and bury half in sand and see what that area looks like after a few days

I concede that moving them to a solid substrate may very well be fine, but the sand is not likely to be the problem, and gluing an already free-living specimen will not be good for the coral.

How is this any different than a plate relocating itself and becoming stuck. How can you confidently say that gluing it to a tile or plug will not be good for it? Not good in what way?

They only relocate to find better conditions. If we provide them conditions that are safe and acceptable, they have no need to relocate.

I have never heard of a plate dying from not being able to relocate. It happens naturally in the ocean and is no different.

I’ve heard and experienced plates being damaged and killed from sand irritation and abrasion, leading to tissue recession, and then forming infections. Sand on top that it can not remove on its own can cause necrosis and bleaching.

All I stated as a recommendation from the beginning was to elevate it off the sand, which will promote full inflation and healing. Plates don’t need sand and they don’t need to be able to move freely. Sand may not always cause an issue, but many times it does. Not worth the risk