Coral Pricing: Are we at a tipping point?

[BroccoliFarmer]

I am sure this topic has been beaten to death but I am wondering when we ever will be at a place when the fancy coral naming to get a higher price is going to reach a ceiling. Not more than 2 years ago, you could get a frogspawn / octospawn for about $40 a head..now I am seeing them for 100-200 a head. Torches..dont even get me started on the Super Ultra Rare Hand Fed aquacultured Monocromatic Rainbow Holy Grail of the God varieties that people are pricing at 600-1200 a head (if not more) that are nothing more than a photoshopped indo gold. I know I am starting to walk away from corals given their pricing and am wondering if others are doing the same or will people keep bidding up prices in the hopes that they can turn around and sell it for more?

side note: I am sure that will trigger people that they are not in it for the money and what business is it of mine how they spend their money. For those peeps, please accept my humble apologies and feel free not to post or respond.

 

[Joe31415]

I don't have a good answer for you, but I'm always amazed at the prices I see online. I've yet to buy any corals online, mainly due to the expensive shipping. However, from time to time I decide that maybe instead of just grabbing a few $20-$40 frags, often mislabeled or unlabeled, maybe I'll pick up a few 'fancy' ones from one of the online vendors. Then I look at the prices and can't bring myself to spend $500+ for a coral.
In fact "can't bring myself" isn't the right phrase. It's not that I spend any time mulling it over. After about two minutes of sticker shock, any thoughts of buying one are gone for another month or two.

 

[Gtinnel]

With torches at least I feel like we are past the peak and prices are starting to drop, although I'm sure some other coral will take its...probably goniopora from what I've heard mentioned.
I can't/won't pay more than $100 for a coral. With many of the insanely high end torches I don't see much of a difference, and certainly not enough of a difference to justify the ridiculous price increase.

 

[dk2nt9]

Look around for other suppliers, online or local. For US, Live Aquaria has frogspawn in $60-70 range, in Canada Fragbox is a good place to find interesting corals. Twice an year, Jan-Feb and Jun, should be sales, a good chances to get something for 1/4 of a regular price.

If common in the past corals became too expensive, consider switching to the new, even more interesting varieties (chalices, cyphastrea, sps) and for motion affect use what is still affordable, gsp.

I can catch $5-10 sales in Fragbox, to try something new that I was not interested in in the past, compensating their losses by getting full priced coral frags (CAD $40-60) that I really want.

Who wants to get highly prized varieties that sell as hot cakes in a winter day even at ridiculously high prices, or large colonies, should be able to afford to compete with other buyers, or buy what is within their means, reality of life. I am also on a lower end of this, can relate.

After spending some time on search, there are posts from sellers, about changes in importing and availability, and cost of doing business with livestock. When they can afford it, they would get more sales on smaller farmed frags.

 

[dennis romano]

I have been buying corals for a very long time. In recent weeks, I have gone to two of my favorite places and walked out without buying anything. In one place, the only colonies under $150 were leathers or beat up colonies that had recession. Acans around three inches across were $200, four inches and larger, almost $400. The other store, two years ago, I bought a single head of a hammer for $40, this week the same kind was $80. Forget about buying a colony. Caribbean gorgonians were $150. I am sorry, but I will stick with what I have.

 

[mfinn]

There will always be that group of people who have the extra $ to spend on fish and corals, and there will always be new varieties and colors combo's of corals that the vendors know will go for premium prices.
That IMO makes the prices on more common ones increase too.
Eventually the prices on things like torch corals will calm down a little, but generally not like they were before.
There are a few places you can find that diamond in the rough, but it's something you have to look for.

 

[mdb_talon]

I agree with a lot of your sentiments and agree the pricing on some things has just gotten crazy and sadly I think it will drive some people out of the hobby. Would add though that wholesale prices have went up dramatically as well on many things though so in many cases a lot of the price increases are not directly from the retailer. I assume prices have also went up for wholesalers (or retailers who import themselves) but thats just a guess I dont know those prices.

I would say though that it also varies tremendously based on the retailer you are looking at. I cant remember the last time I purchased from one of the big name retailers... even their sale prices are just not reasonable in my opinion versus prices that can be found via other smaller and lesser known retailers. If a site offers 60-80% off sales every few weeks it is a good sign they have unreasonable prices and personally something I stay away from.

Just take a road trip to illinois I got some torches and frogspawns I will sell you for $40

 

[JaimeAdams]

You know. Let's say torches. If I order 3 boxes of coral from lets say Indonesia I'm going to ask for torches and I will be lucky if I get at max one torch per box. Three years ago I would pay $50 for like a 10 head colony. Now those Indonesia exporters are charging over $100 per head and more. Then I have to take all the filler pieces that are going into those boxes because I want the same torches that everyone else wants. My next problem because that just this week I payed almost $500 in freight cost per box to get an order from Indonesia to the store in Pittsburgh. So even the cheap $40 or $50 colonies will cost me an extra $30 - $50 in freight. I just mark it up a percentage, but I might have $100 in some random favia or lobo or something. Even the cheapest stuff that no body wants that I'm sometimes forced to take is still costing me the $15 a kilo international air freight rates and I need to mark it up based on how much it costs me to get it to my tanks.

Torches are coming down in price. They are still desirable, but no longer on fire. Anyone who has been at this awhile knows that fads come and go. It will be something else that will sky rocket in desirability and as a result in price as well.

 

[mfinn]

Another way to beat higher prices is to look into your local hobbyists markets.
In my area there are 4-5 garage farms that sell at pretty competitive prices.
For instance I got a single small head of Todds torch for $150.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I honestly just stopped buying (all evidence to the contrary). I am just to the point that the juice isnt worth the squeeze anymore. ill let my current livestock grow out and trade..or not..but I think I am done buying for a while. I guess if enough people get to the same place..prices will come back down to earth...or they wont.

 

[Goaway]

And here we are with SBB in your sig.... mr @BroccoliFarmer !!!

I'm still going to try and sell my ultra+SSS rank mint blast pavona at 500 per chip! I mean, it makes the perfect blenny chair. Offers amazing comfort and security.

Edit: you will have to grow your own chip out ... ;Hilarious

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

And here we are with SBB in your sig.... mr @BroccoliFarmer !!!

I'm still going to try and sell my ultra+SSS rank mint blast pavona at 500 per chip! I mean, it makes the perfect blenny chair. Offers amazing comfort and security.

Edit: you will have to grow your own chip out ... ;Hilarious

Doing my part to help out small business.

 

[Goaway]

It's all good. Looks like he's going to have some decent prices. But, I think I am done for a season on coral purchases.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

It's all good. Looks like he's going to have some decent prices. But, I think I am done for a season on coral purchases.

I am done too. Prices have finally turned me off from buying.

 

[Newb73]

So I haven't had many fish losses in years (not enough to restock) and though I did have some temperature related coral losses a couple summers ago, hadn't really been in the market since about 2018. Both my 225 and my 90 are medium stocked and stable.

Today for the first time since early 2019 I wondered over form my normal visit to the freezer/frozen food to check out the livestock. EDIT...I did buy a Melanaurus wrasse I think back in late 2019 or early 2020 and things seemed normal then (love that fish by thev way) .

My impression when I left the store was "Dam.... I'm gonna end up with fake corals and a few of those fake fish on strings if this is permanent."

$300 purple tang. Almost no fish in stock. Even the clowns were pricy.

The only things reasonable were a $159.00 Naso that might have been $99 to $129 back in 2019 and some cardinals. I'd have bought the Naso just for the investment but I'm good on Tangs presently.....my Hippo and Sail fin are both in the 8 yo 10 inch range and adding a new Tang now wouldn't be smart. Also I was a little heartbroken after my Achilles made it nearly 4 years and then passed (I consider that a failure).

They had a couple PJ cardinals I'd like to have (my last pair died after about 5 years...within 3 months of each other)

The absolute biggest shock was the multi hundred dollar price on bristle tooth tangs...I almost threw up.. Id like to add one back eventually as my Niger went rogue and killed my Kole Yellow eye back in 2018ish. ... I almost always kept a Tommi or Kole in at least one of my tanks and now........

The other fish Id like eventually is a rabbit....they were over double but not out of reach.. Ive got a 10 inch Java stuck in my 90...I'm just gonna catch it and transfer it needs more swimming room anyway as its long outgrown the 90...but then I'll want a small replacement for the 90....maybe.

Did not see ANY dwarf angels. Not a 1.

If the prices I'm seeing are right my 5 year hippo that I got for $39 is worth close to $300 now....what the heck?

Someone please tell what I witnessed was simply pandemic relates.

I walked out REALLY disturbed.

Corals?. Meh they had some tiny LPS and polys and etc. at semi do-able prices if you don't mind buying small...waiting a month or two in between and growing them out yourself...which I am not opposed to.

I didn't see any Sps in the store.

Signed...completely disillusioned.

 

[JaimeAdams]

So I haven't had many fish losses in years (not enough to restock) and though I did have some temperature related coral losses a couple summers ago, hadn't really been in the market since about 2018. Both my 225 and my 90 are medium stocked and stable.

Today for the first time since early 2019 I wondered over form my normal visit to the freezer/frozen food to check out the livestock. EDIT...I did buy a Melanaurus wrasse I think back in late 2019 or early 2020 and things seemed normal then (love that fish by thev way) .

My impression when I left the store was "Dam.... I'm gonna end up with fake corals and a few of those fake fish on strings if this is permanent."

$300 purple tang. Almost no fish in stock. Even the clowns were pricy.

The only things reasonable were a $159.00 Naso that might have been $99 to $129 back in 2019 and some cardinals. I'd have bought the Naso just for the investment but I'm good on Tangs presently.....my Hippo and Sail fin are both in the 8 yo 10 inch range and adding a new Tang now wouldn't be smart. Also I was a little heartbroken after my Achilles made it nearly 4 years and then passed (I consider that a failure).

They had a couple PJ cardinals I'd like to have (my last pair died after about 5 years...within 3 months of each other)

The absolute biggest shock was the multi hundred dollar price on bristle tooth tangs...I almost threw up.. Id like to add one back eventually as my Niger went rogue and killed my Kole Yellow eye back in 2018ish. ... I almost always kept a Tommi or Kole in at least one of my tanks and now........

The other fish Id like eventually is a rabbit....they were over double but not out of reach.. Ive got a 10 inch Java stuck in my 90...I'm just gonna catch it and transfer it needs more swimming room anyway as its long outgrown the 90...but then I'll want a small replacement for the 90....maybe.

Did not see ANY dwarf angels. Not a 1.

If the prices I'm seeing are right my 5 year hippo that I got for $39 is worth close to $300 now....what the heck?

Someone please tell what I witnessed was simply pandemic relates.

I walked out REALLY disturbed.

Corals?. Meh they had some tiny LPS and polys and etc. at semi do-able prices if you don't mind buying small...waiting a month or two in between and growing them out yourself...which I am not opposed to.

I didn't see any Sps in the store.

Signed...completely disillusioned.

international freight prices are insane. Whether you are transhipping or purchasing from a domestic wholesaler the aged cost of shipping is killing the price. I paid $400 per box transhippedfrom Bali a couple weeks back. One box had 7 fish in it, another had 8 fish. I simply mark up a percentage, but when I have $50 per fish in just shipping costs those end prices aren't going to be low.

 

[Greg P]

@BroccoliFarmer how long have you been reefkeeping? Things are not any worse than they were 10 or 20 years ago

Prices go up as demand on specific species or products rises.
Then, as the market is flooded with the product, the prices drop.

You're not going to see high demand products continue to demand high prices long-term, so if you're looking to make money, don't expect the latest 'fad' coral to be your goldmine.
Supply your customers the best they want.

My buddy bought a Setosa frag for $600. 2 years later we bought frags for $25