Current Quarantine Protocol

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you - I’ll try get prep underway for future QT, but looks like I’m going to have to do the multi water change option for this one.

Not trying to be “cheap”, but assuming good water parameters in the DT could I use tank water following water changes on the DT for the QT tank?

In my head this makes sense - water is OK, and gets the fish used to the same water they’re gonna be put in after QT so hopefully minimizes shock on transfer. Or is there more to it than that?

That works fine - I often re-use water like that; water from a coral system is good for changing water in a FOWLR which in turn can be used in a QT, etc.

Jay

 

[ConsummatePro]

Sadly (and as predicted by Jay) all my lyretail anthias died during qurantine, about 3 weeks in for the last to die.

Questions:
1. I'm ready to get more fish but should I let this tank (now all fish gone) sit with coppersafe (at 2.3 concentration) to finish the original clock of 30 days before I change the water and start a new round of quarantine? I presume new fish shouldn't just be put into a full therapeutic dose of copper at time zero.

2. Is there any difference between Coppersafe and Copper Power? Jay mentions Coppersafe by name the most.

3. Next fish planned is a Diamond Goby. Good lid in place, thinking some small amount of sand in a dish (checking copper levels) but any other precautions/deviations from the standard protocol for sand-sifting gobies?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sadly (and as predicted by Jay) all my lyretail anthias died during qurantine, about 3 weeks in for the last to die.

Questions:
1. I'm ready to get more fish but should I let this tank (now all fish gone) sit with coppersafe (at 2.3 concentration) to finish the original clock of 30 days before I change the water and start a new round of quarantine? I presume new fish shouldn't just be put into a full therapeutic dose of copper at time zero.

2. Is there any difference between Coppersafe and Copper Power? Jay mentions Coppersafe by name the most.

3. Next fish planned is a Diamond Goby. Good lid in place, thinking some small amount of sand in a dish (checking copper levels) but any other precautions/deviations from the standard protocol for sand-sifting gobies?

Sorry to hear.
1) good question. I would hold the tank with copper for 30 days, to ensure all protozoans are killed. You can add fish to full coppersafe, dealers do that all the time. However, a water change prior to your next batch of fish would be helpful, so perhaps start with a half dose of copper.
2) I don’t know of any difference between coppersafe and copper power. I use coppersafe, so that’s what a call out by name.
3) just make sure the sand in the bowl isn’t calcium based so that it won’t interfere with the copper.
Jay

 

[Reefer1978]

@Jay Hemdal could you please explain "Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously." if you have any additional details? Sore where I pick up fish rom run them together, with Copper at 1.8.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal could you please explain "Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously." if you have any additional details? Sore where I pick up fish rom run them together, with Copper at 1.8.

Coppersafe or copper power at 1.8 is too low of a dose to be effective.

At a full proper dose of 2.5, combining copper and prazi adds extra stress that the fish really don’t need. Since protozoans kill fish faster than flukes do, it is best to treat with copper first, then prazi. If flukes are confirmed and severe, prazi and copper can be run at the same time, but expect some reactions in the fish.
Jay

 

[Reefer1978]

expect some reactions in the fish

With proper aeration, what would some of these reactions be?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

With proper aeration, what would some of these reactions be?

Generalized stress, nothing specific - copper has a narrow margin of safety and the supposition is that even a therapeutic dose is stressful. Prazipro scavenges oxygen from the water that aeration helps with, but likely not 100%, so in combination, marginal fish could be pushed over the edge. So - if conditions don’t force you to combine these, then you don’t.

Jay

 

[Dine]

When setting up a new QT with bottled bacteria should I wait a certain amount of time before adding copper? I have a fish that is showing signs of Ich or possibly velvet and would like to start treating him but am also worried about killing off the bacteria before it can take hold

 

[Jay Hemdal]

When setting up a new QT with bottled bacteria should I wait a certain amount of time before adding copper? I have a fish that is showing signs of Ich or possibly velvet and would like to start treating him but am also worried about killing off the bacteria before it can take hold

Copper has minimal effect on beneficial bacteria - usually none at all, but I tell people it might knock it back by about 25%, just to be conservative.

jay

 

[feresadas]

Hey jay, I got two clowns in November, they were happy and healthy for a few weeks when they showed signs of ich (white dots, scratching). I got a QT settup and treated them with copper power for 30 days, then left them in QT till 50 days had passed with the DT fallow. however they seem to have gotten ich again while still in the QT. advice? currently planning on just re-treating with copper power.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey jay, I got two clowns in November, they were happy and healthy for a few weeks when they showed signs of ich (white dots, scratching). I got a QT settup and treated them with copper power for 30 days, then left them in QT till 50 days had passed with the DT fallow. however they seem to have gotten ich again while still in the QT. advice? currently planning on just re-treating with copper power.

Are you sure of the diagnosis? If so, then, yes, you'll need to run the copper power again. If you are unsure, you can try posting a video here and I can try to diagnose it....

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

Jay - is the recommendation to do Prazi a default for all QT or only if there is evidence of a fluke issue?

Im rounding out the end of my first attempt at QT (day 26/30 in copper) and was curious if Prazi is needed of the fish seem OK.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay - is the recommendation to do Prazi a default for all QT or only if there is evidence of a fluke issue?

Im rounding out the end of my first attempt at QT (day 26/30 in copper) and was curious if Prazi is needed of the fish seem OK.

Because flukes are often asymptomatic, all fish should be given the prazi prophylactic treatment.

Jay

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

@Jay Hemdal , are there any retailers that quarantine to a level that you believe to be adequate? I would like to add a shrimp goby for my pistol shrimp but I do not have the time right now to run through your QT regiment. I have heard great things about Dr. Reef, but his QT protocols don't seem to be up to your recommended level.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal , are there any retailers that quarantine to a level that you believe to be adequate? I would like to add a shrimp goby for my pistol shrimp but I do not have the time right now to run through your QT regiment. I have heard great things about Dr. Reef, but his QT protocols don't seem to be up to your recommended level.

I used to manage a store where we tried to fully quarantine our fish. We offered two tiered pricing; "fresh off the plane" or "full quarantined" at a much higher price. So which did our customers choose? They chose to go to another store that said they "quarantined" their fish, but really didn't, and sold them for much less than us (grin).

I'm sure there are some stores out there with comprehensive quarantine protocols, but I don't know of any firsthand. Back in the 1980's, Old Town Aquarium in Chicago used to keep fish in their basement and not offer them for sale until they had been quarantined....not sure if their new store does that.

I always re-quarantine everything, even fish from other public aquariums. That is a bit extreme, but I cannot afford to risk getting a disease into a main fish system.

I think that Dr. Reef's protocol is better in some ways; they use Fenbendazole and Metronidazole orally. I left that out of our protocol due to the inability for most home aquarists to properly dose oral meds (literally everyone gets it wrong!). Their process is just a bit shorter on the copper front, but I don't think that is a huge issue.

Jay

 

[Reefer1978]

Hi @Jay Hemdal, do you hav any advice on 28-day vs. 30-day copper treatment? Is cutting the period by 2 days risky at all? Reason for the question, today is day 28, and it's Sunday, a much more desirable day to perform copper cleanup, WCs, start Prazi treatment than during the week.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi @Jay Hemdal, do you hav any advice on 28-day vs. 30-day copper treatment? Is cutting the period by 2 days risky at all? Reason for the question, today is day 28, and it's Sunday, a much more desirable day to perform copper cleanup, WCs, start Prazi treatment than during the week.

Most likely zero impact to the process. It is, however, a sliding scale. If two days short is fine, what about 4?, 7? 14?(grin).

If your tank had an active infection that you were treating for, then going 30 days beyond the day the last symptom was seen is important. If you are just running a quarantine with no diagnosed disease, then 28 days is fine.

Jay

 

[Reefer1978]

Most likely zero impact to the process. It is, however, a sliding scale. If two days short is fine, what about 4?, 7? 14?(grin).

If your tank had an active infection that you were treating for, then going 30 days beyond the day the last symptom was seen is important. If you are just running a quarantine with no diagnosed disease, then 28 days is fine.

Jay

Thanks Jay, I do not. The fish came from a store that had them in copper, 0 signs of ich on them, and I just completed day 28.

 

[zheka757]

can I go without measuring copper level? just dose what bottle tell amount? the bottle i got today it says dose 5ml for every 4 gallons, and I got 75 gallon tank. main reason is i don't want to spend $70 on Hanna checker. And cheaper tests are inaccurate based on reviews. ...I have expired api copper test kit from like 5 years ago

 

[vetteguy53081]

can I go without measuring copper level? just dose what bottle tell amount? the bottle i got today it says dose 5ml for every 4 gallons, and I got 75 gallon tank. main reason is i don't want to spend $70 on Hanna checker. And cheaper tests are inaccurate based on reviews. ...I have expired api copper test kit from like 5 years ago

Do not. We have too many that have overdosed and realized copper is a poison if too high.
I believe $60-$70 is cheaper than loss a a $90- $150 fish. Accuracy is important