Cyano Question

[Fat_Fender]

The run down:
Tanks around 10months old, rock was used from an older tank.
80L display tank
25L sump
1x Jebao 10 Wavemaker (waterflow seems good as you can see the cyano moving around easily)
(also have turned up the return pump for even more flow)
Skimmer: Doesn't seem to catch much im running it wet atm
(its a coral box d300 plus, alittle over kill for the tank think the neck is too large for bubble to foam all the time)
HD prime light runs 11am to 6pm (Blue 90% UV 50% V 50% CW 25%)

small lps corals (torch, blaso, mushrooms, finger leather, acan, xenia, bubble)
1x small BTA
2x clown fish (1.5inchs)
1x tri color blenny (2inchs)
1x yellow goby (2inchs)
1x Cleaner shrimp

I have been testing
p04 Hannah tester: 0.04
api test kit: Nitrates 10-20ppm

ro/di water used
red sea blue bucket
doing 50% water changes weekly

I have cyano bacteria over the tank and that keeps coming back and very small amount of green hair algae I have been feeding ever 2nd day now to try stop the cyano but still no luck, Seems like its coming back worst/faster.

I feeding a very small pinch in the morning and again at night.

My question is, are the test results coming back wrong due to the hair algae and cyano bacteria already in the tank, should I be feeding more to get the nutrition levels up.
I keep reading cyano thrives in low nitrate environments, yet im at 10-20ppm

I have redsea no3po4 here should I start dosing this?

 

[PBar]

Dear colleague,
if possible, a picture of full tank would be also helpful.
Cyanos are tricky and they can thrive in many different environments… not only in low nitrates.

Anyway, there is something strange regarding your 50% weekly water change. In such scenario, you are not supposed to have these numbers.
Could you please describe how to produce the new water? RO, RI…
Besides, when available, do a water test in this new water… that might explain some things.

Let us know!
Cheers

 

[dk2nt9]

While waiting for more replies about regulating cyano in a natural way, there are more strong solutions that usually solve the problem (IME): Chemiclean or Dr. Tim's products. Follow instructions.

 

[ReefRusty]

Was in a very similar scenario a you are right now. I would siphon the sand bed every water change and it would come straight back... so tried 3 day black out.. not highly recommended if you have coral, as I did lose 1 but it's an option as they thrive of light. Then tried chemi clean.. fixed my problem and still nothing till this day.

Its obvious a imbalance in your nutrients that cause cyano and trying to work out what it is can be hard.

Full.picture of tnk and close up on the affected areas would help Id exactly what your going through.

 

[Fat_Fender]

thanks for the quick reply's,

I use an ro/di which has just had all the filters changed, I store the water in 80L buckets (unsure if food grade) something I want to upgrade, I normally use the water the same day its made.

I currently have 40L of nsw, going to do a water change now and then a test and then the following day will post results.

I'm currently using cemiclean, has clean up alot of the cayno but it will come back as this is the 2nd time I've used it.

 

[Fat_Fender]

Just noticed my hanna p04 reagent test are out of date back in 2017.
Got some new ones and now its showing p04 0.00

Also did a Giesemann p04 test, I find this test kit hard to read, but looks like its under 0.03 mg/l with this kit it doesn't go lower test color barely changed from tank water color.

I guessing the low feeding maybe the cause of this?

 

[brandon429]

Fender

a 20 gallon reef is very easy to fix, read this

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

no testing required, only a certain way to clean the reef. before pondering questions read the post and read their updates after running the rip clean, it will answer 99% of prep questions. your phosphate has nothing to do with the issue, we show.

and to show those six reefs aren't the total example set, here's 300 more. reading the first link is simpler, that's why I start with the top six.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

these two threads comprise the most examples of fixed cyano in reefs you could possibly find.

If you'll notice in link example #1, they're usually working on invaded rock issues. it doesnt matter that one doesnt have cyano examples, the second one has six years of them.

the top link shows you a short, clear read on how to wash sand and that alone will fix your issue, even if you have dinos vs cyano. following the work examples in the first link will fix the gha on the rocks as we show, before it takes off. this method above isn't harsh, or everyone would be mad vs thankful.

its not harsh because we use rip cleans to move reefs to new homes, and everyone loves the bright shiny old reef in its new place. there isn't a downside to the method, or they'd tell me of them in the constant updates.

 

[brandon429]

there is also a key detail in learning this method of control for a nano: right now you have mere annoyance as an invasion. knowing how to run a rip clean can save your entire reef when something really bad like dinos sets in, or a poisoning event, or if you have to move/upgrade or deep clean the reef. These cleaning runs add life to your tank vs stress it, there isn't a downside in knowing how to do a rip clean it can be the #1 life saving trick you may require one day, its better to master it when the whole risk isn't on the line

the reason I didnt need to see pics of your tank or its parameters is because when someone asks for a successful home move those dont matter then either. what matters is copying the moves exactly as shown.

 

[nicksreefs]

having battled cyano and won without chemical treatment seems you're most of the way to curing the bloom from the sound of it.

Cyano blooms are triggered by an imbalance between phosphate and nitrite/nitrate - low flow - low dissolved oxygen level.

Balance of phosphate & nitrates... not a difficult one to keep and eye on & there's a straightforward ratio that will. The ration is more an indicator that you're successfully addressing an imbalnce somewhere - it is not a target to hit (every tank is different some may be slightly out of whack and be fine but roughly speaking as below will be grand)

Phosphate - nitrate
.01 - 10ppm
.02 - 20ppm
.03 - 30ppm
.04 - 40ppm
etc etc

Phosphate is normally feeding related so maybe lower the feed amount but keep it regular... regular trips to the salad buffet rather than feasting every other day.

Flow - sounds like you've got it sorted but if it seems thicker in some places maybe try adjusting the angle or position slightly (don't upset the other inhabitants though!)

Oxygen - this is a waste product produced by Cyano. yes its consumed by other things but not cyano. Try adding an airstone for a period (until cleared). Why no one like sitting in their own poop!

Personally id go with the steps below:

Manually clean any cyano you can get to you can when next changing water(toothbrush on stick + siphon worked well for me).
Resume normal feeding but little and often (as it would be in nature).
Add airstone.
small regular water changes for a week - maybe 3/4 times but nothing major say 20% then id settle down to maybe 20% a week? why - to slowly and gently lower the phosphate. (someone above has VERY wisely suggested you check the water you are using for changes)
Breath in, breath out.

The above has worked for me and is based on personal experience and positive feedback where i've shared this approach before.
There are many viewpoints and approaches and i do not claim that this is the one and only way to go at all!
That said it has worked for me twice now (2 different tanks) + shared this approach twice and it has resolved the issue both times.

Whichever way you go to solve this i wish you the very best of luck in clearing your cyano bloom!

 

[Fat_Fender]

Water change done 25L

p04: 0.00
Nitrates: 10ppm

I take it there is p04 in the tank due to the growth of cyano?
also hit the tank with another dose of chemiclean.

I'm making up ro/di water and will start mixing up salt tomorrow to do what brandon429 has recommend.

 

[brandon429]

Can you post a full tank shot it’ll help catch any standout planning details


rip cleans don’t allow for any customization to still turn out safe, I can’t overstate how well we have to rinse to be safe, a pic will help ensure all small details are accounted for


the only risk in disassembly cleaning is not rinsing the sand well enough and putting back a cloudy setup

 

[Fat_Fender]

Attched some photos, not the best as camera phone isnt great. water is cloudy due to the air from the skimmer as im using chemiclean at the moment.

 

[brandon429]

Hey nice!
the lysmata is the most sensitive organism we keep regarding peroxide

so once you rasp and detail the rocks externally outside the tank (shown in detail in the first example link in my dual link post above) make sure you use saltwater to rinse the rocks well so no peroxide gets back into the main tank. Only the lysmata is the risk if you flubbed that step, no others above are sensitives

make sure you don’t dip the rock, we never did that one single time in any of the links, they specifically show surgical detailing in the kitchen sink and then rinsed clean with old tank water or new salt water etc.

link #1 shows the tanks totally taken apart, fish held in buckets with lids so they don’t jump. It shows sand rinsing in tap water, they show using a clear drinking glass to assess your rinse sand before you reset the tank, that way there cant be any excuses for an imperfect rinse. The rip clean will make your reef look brand new like the others and no bottle bac is needed.


when the tank is disassembled look how the entrants clean the empty glass tank back to 100% clear inside and out, no scum anywhere. Then they set back in totally cloud free sand final rinse was in ro water to evacuate tap


then cleaned and debrided rocks back on top, rinsed well in saltwater so they don’t bring cloud


then all new water matching temp and salinity of the holding tank water


then the animals, and the final pic is ruby reef gold / ripped clean. Reef surgery all in one pass. Try and rinse even cleaner than those guys in link one, that way we can add our seventh best of the best example. Most people go 99.9% clear which is always safe but they’re relegated to disappearing in the second link page sixty lol we got high standards mane for the GOATs

 

[brandon429]

Fat fender can you think of any other prep questions before running the surgery, that above covers just about most unintended suprises

 

[nicksreefs]

Its a beautiful tank you've got there in those pics!

I've seen notes, advice and general info from @brandon429 on other threads and he defo knows his stuff! He'll steer you in the right direction.

Particularly agree with his desire to see the high mortality rate in this hobby drop. Well worth reading some of his posts on QT if you're planning on adding more livestock after you've overcome cyano.

I wish you luck getting the tank back to a happy place!