I resisted the urge!
Cycle question
- Thread starter dieselgoose
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EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
No. Once you have a reading of 0/undetectable ammonia, AND a measurable amount of niTRATE, then you add some fuel (extra food, bottled ammonia, etc), until your test shows 1-2 ppm ammonia. Then you test 24 hours later - if the system has processed the 1-2 ppm ammo and it's back to 0/undetectable, then your system is cycled for the bioload it has.
EDIT: THE ABOVE IS NOT FOR TANKS THAT ALREADY HAVE FISH!
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
dieselgoose said:
So with those reading I can assume the tank is cycled and I should knock a water change right?
No. Once you have a reading of 0/undetectable ammonia, AND a measurable amount of niTRATE, then you add some fuel (extra food, bottled ammonia, etc), until your test shows 1-2 ppm ammonia. Then you test 24 hours later - if the system has processed the 1-2 ppm ammo and it's back to 0/undetectable, then your system is cycled for the bioload it has.
I Added an important edit.
EDIT: THE ABOVE IS NOT FOR TANKS THAT ALREADY HAVE FISH!
So with those reading I can assume the tank is cycled and I should knock a water change right?
No. Once you have a reading of 0/undetectable ammonia, AND a measurable amount of niTRATE, then you add some fuel (extra food, bottled ammonia, etc), until your test shows 1-2 ppm ammonia. Then you test 24 hours later - if the system has processed the 1-2 ppm ammo and it's back to 0/undetectable, then your system is cycled for the bioload it has.
I Added an important edit.
EDIT: THE ABOVE IS NOT FOR TANKS THAT ALREADY HAVE FISH!
At this point, with fish in the tank, consider your cycle complete.
I would wait a while before adding anything else though.
I would wait a while before adding anything else though.
You must of heard me typing! LOL
If you really want to learn, go and find an article written by somebody smart, like a biologist or chemist, that explains it. Dr. Ron has written a bunch.... maybe Dr. RFH too. I dunno. ...and not bulk reef supply or other manufacturer or vendor. 
The format is incredibly bad, but Wet Web Media has a wealth of knowledge where you can learn a lot. You can find some cycle questions and just start reading the back and forth from the asker and the professional. You can learn a lot there, but it can be painful at first... but after a while, it starts to look like the 1s and 0s dripping down on the green screen of the Matrix and it all makes sense.
I will stay out of most of since you can find somebody smarter, but where most posters leave off is the last step of the nitrogen cycle where anoxic bacteria deep in the rock and sand turn no3 back into nitrogen gas. This is how you efficiently export nitrate without ever getting too low. Some tanks will never be good at this if they don't have enough sand or have non porous rock and the owners are left to treat nitrate on their own with media or chemicals. By your photos, you will need more sand for this. I really like to have 2-3 inches of sand, which I talk about a lot in my build thread since it buffers phosphate and completes the N cycle and I can feed a ton of food to my fish, which in turn feed my corals a ton with their waste.
Bacteria products are fine. I doubt that they hurt anything. Since you had fish, their guts had all the bacteria that you needed, but not all will use fish for this. Don't sweat the fritz addition... it might have done something whether it was necessary or not. There are WAY worse things that you could have added.
In the future, there is nearly nothing in a bottle that you need to add beyond carbonate, calcium and maybe some magnesium (or other real traces). Try and avoid all remedies in a bottle and you will be further along than most. Say no to DinoX if you get dinos. Say no to NoPox if you get pox - kidding... but just say no.
I would not do an ammonia stress test with fish in the tank. Film algae is a good enough of indicator that you can process some stuff.
The format is incredibly bad, but Wet Web Media has a wealth of knowledge where you can learn a lot. You can find some cycle questions and just start reading the back and forth from the asker and the professional. You can learn a lot there, but it can be painful at first... but after a while, it starts to look like the 1s and 0s dripping down on the green screen of the Matrix and it all makes sense.
I will stay out of most of since you can find somebody smarter, but where most posters leave off is the last step of the nitrogen cycle where anoxic bacteria deep in the rock and sand turn no3 back into nitrogen gas. This is how you efficiently export nitrate without ever getting too low. Some tanks will never be good at this if they don't have enough sand or have non porous rock and the owners are left to treat nitrate on their own with media or chemicals. By your photos, you will need more sand for this. I really like to have 2-3 inches of sand, which I talk about a lot in my build thread since it buffers phosphate and completes the N cycle and I can feed a ton of food to my fish, which in turn feed my corals a ton with their waste.
Bacteria products are fine. I doubt that they hurt anything. Since you had fish, their guts had all the bacteria that you needed, but not all will use fish for this. Don't sweat the fritz addition... it might have done something whether it was necessary or not. There are WAY worse things that you could have added.
In the future, there is nearly nothing in a bottle that you need to add beyond carbonate, calcium and maybe some magnesium (or other real traces). Try and avoid all remedies in a bottle and you will be further along than most. Say no to DinoX if you get dinos. Say no to NoPox if you get pox - kidding... but just say no.
I would not do an ammonia stress test with fish in the tank. Film algae is a good enough of indicator that you can process some stuff.
+1. Water Change wouldn't hurt either.
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
Only because people are inclined to look for shortcuts.
The fact that we're trying to create a healthy, stable ecosystem that will last for a long time means that we have to let the system develop and go through the inconvenient stages...
dieselgoose
Community Member
Thank you. So is there any negative side affects to more sand or too much sand or does that go hand and hand with the mor surface area the more place for bacteria to live and grow.If you really want to learn, go and find an article written by somebody smart, like a biologist or chemist, that explains it. Dr. Ron has written a bunch.... maybe Dr. RFH too. I dunno. ...and not bulk reef supply or other manufacturer or vendor.
The format is incredibly bad, but Wet Web Media has a wealth of knowledge where you can learn a lot. You can find some cycle questions and just start reading the back and forth from the asker and the professional. You can learn a lot there, but it can be painful at first... but after a while, it starts to look like the 1s and 0s dripping down on the green screen of the Matrix and it all makes sense.
I will stay out of most of since you can find somebody smarter, but where most posters leave off is the last step of the nitrogen cycle where anoxic bacteria deep in the rock and sand turn no3 back into nitrogen gas. This is how you efficiently export nitrate without ever getting too low. Some tanks will never be good at this if they don't have enough sand or have non porous rock and the owners are left to treat nitrate on their own with media or chemicals. By your photos, you will need more sand for this. I really like to have 2-3 inches of sand, which I talk about a lot in my build thread since it buffers phosphate and completes the N cycle and I can feed a ton of food to my fish, which in turn feed my corals a ton with their waste.
Bacteria products are fine. I doubt that they hurt anything. Since you had fish, their guts had all the bacteria that you needed, but not all will use fish for this. Don't sweat the fritz addition... it might have done something whether it was necessary or not. There are WAY worse things that you could have added.
In the future, there is nearly nothing in a bottle that you need to add beyond carbonate, calcium and maybe some magnesium (or other real traces). Try and avoid all remedies in a bottle and you will be further along than most. Say no to DinoX if you get dinos. Say no to NoPox if you get pox - kidding... but just say no.
I would not do an ammonia stress test with fish in the tank. Film algae is a good enough of indicator that you can process some stuff.
dieselgoose
Community Member
Gotcha
dieselgoose
Community Member
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
There's no real reason to not add bacteria to a brand new system that has limited or no live rock. The goal is for the nitrifying bacteria populations to grow to a level that can support the waste of the system. It is not an 'unnatural' process to dump some extra bacteria into the tank rather than rely on the small amount already present to catch up.
You can add more sand. Always can. It is a good idea to go slow if the tank is mature since you will need time for the oxic and anoxic areas to redevelop.
I like an untouched sandbed, but not everybody does. I like the critters that like it, I love the denitrification and phosphate buffering. It is just not worth it to me to do the job that the sand would otherwise do.
I like an untouched sandbed, but not everybody does. I like the critters that like it, I love the denitrification and phosphate buffering. It is just not worth it to me to do the job that the sand would otherwise do.
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
100% agree. I edited that post to include a similar comment.
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
A good way to cultivate an anoxic environment for denitrifying bacteria/processes is to use biomedia like Seachem Matrix (not to be confused with the Matrix mentioned a few posts ago with reference to wet web media, lol). It's an alternative to a deep sand bed. If you want to try this, I suggest dumping a jar of Matrix into a large mesh media bag (the holes/mesh are large, the bag can be whatever size you want) and placing it in your sump.
dieselgoose
Community Member
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
Like I said, adding a product that is designed to encourage anaerobic bacterial colonization will help with nitrate control in the long run
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