Cycle question

dieselgoose

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75g with 60lbs dry and 15lbs live rock. Used fritz and 2 clowns. Using the master test. Starting the cycle only 9 days ago. So the problem is that ofcourse my ammonia came up fast and furious and seems to be holding at at .50. All good right. Well I never seen any nitrites then today all of a sudden my nitrates are at 20ppm. So is this normal with fritz? I have never used it before.
 

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Has nothing to do with the salt brand. It's your ammonia converting to nitrite then nitrate and just builds because you don't have anything to export the nitrate yet besides water changes. That system happens deep in oxygen poor areas of your rocks and takes months to start working and years to be efficient.

Expect an algae bloom soon and if you have a refugium, fill it with cheato if you want to limit the tank uglies
 
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dieselgoose

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I have kept the lights off from the start. My question is really about a water change for the clowns safety? Would it it be safe to assume that with the fritz the table cycled that fast?
 

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I have kept the lights off from the start. My question is really about a water change for the clowns safety? Would it it be safe to assume that with the fritz the table cycled that fast?
Your cycle is not done until ammonia and nitrite are both consistently zero.

This just means the cycle is progressing and you are beginning to stabilize.
 
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dieselgoose

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That’s what I’m thinking but the not seeing the nitrites had me scratching my head. To go straight from ammonia to nitrates in 9 days is confusing to me lol.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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I have kept the lights off from the start. My question is really about a water change for the clowns safety? Would it it be safe to assume that with the fritz the table cycled that fast?
Your tank is not cycled if you still have ammonia. I'm not sure why people still insist on subjecting fish to unsafe water when there are other safer, cheaper, easier ways to add ammonia to your tank. As you understand since you are asking about a water change, your clownfish are at risk of getting sick, or worse, with your ammonia on the rise. Please do water changes as needed to lower the ammonia, but understand that this will slow down the cycle since there will be less fuel for the bacteria to feed on.
 

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I have kept the lights off from the start. My question is really about a water change for the clowns safety? Would it it be safe to assume that with the fritz the table cycled that fast?
Your tank is cycled when, after getting an ammonia result of 0, you can increase the ammonia to 2ppm and this is processed (test returns to 0) within 24 hours. But this just means it's cycled for a basic, very light bioload, and you still need to add any livestock slowly so the bacterial populations can keep up.
 

ZombieEngineer

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That’s what I’m thinking but the not seeing the nitrites had me scratching my head. To go straight from ammonia to nitrates in 9 days is confusing to me lol.
Some of the nitrate can be leached from dry rock too if it's not fully cured.

Did you cure the dry rock for any amount of time before adding the live and fish?

I like to go at least a couple weeks of fishless cycling and curing before adding any fish to avoid burning my new fish with ammonia. My new tank is getting 6 weeks while I QT my first additions.

Also 0.5 ammonia is kinda pushing it. I would do either 10% water changes daily until that level is at or below 0.25 or add a small amount of Prime to get it there. You probably won't kill your fish at 0.5 ppm, but it's not good for them.
 

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Some of the nitrate can be leached from dry rock too.

Did you cure the dry rock for any amount of time before adding the live and fish?

I like to go at least a couple weeks of fishless cycling and curing before adding any fish to avoid burning my new fish with ammonia. My new tank is getting 6 weeks while I QT my first additions.

Also 0.5 ammonia is kinda pushing it. I would do either 10% water changes daily until that level is at or below 0.25 or add a small amount of Prime to get it there. You probably won't kill your fish at 0.5 ppm, but it's not good for them.
If you add Prime, remember that it does not claim to remove ammonia, only to TEMPORARILY change it to a non toxic form for up to 24 hours (and there is some serious debate as to whether or not it even does this). Any ammonia that is still in the tank after 24 hrs will again become toxic. And (assuming Prime does what it says it does), during that 24 hours, your ammonia tests will be useless due to the addition of Prime. I would only use Prime in an emergency, or to remove chlorine.
 

brandon429

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I’m going to break a rare I will never post here again rule. I’m doing it because the forum is slipping back to 1998 cycling despite the work logged here from 2014 onward: what’s being posted goes against every seneye reading posted from a reef tank with animals behaving completely normal and symptomless.


There is no harm here, post a tank pic for proof.


not a pic of the reported test levels. A pic of the aquarium so we can see animal positioning in the pic

The ammonia is controlled, not out of control, or doom would be reported and not normal fish behavior. nh4 is being reported from a non digital kit. Don’t complete cycle umpire calls off non digital nh4 readings in tanks beyond day three using three day bottle bac and all happy animals in clear water after days of feeding. That means cycled, uncycled is dead fish gray water. Require nh3 reports from seneye or defer to Dr. Reef’s bottle bac thread where seneye was used as a benchmark.

Dr. Reef’s bottle bac thread is one hundred pages long. It charts the bottle bac deposition rate for any brand we want to know.

the date for implantation here is day three, and before implantation the swirling bac were active in this most expensive bottle bac and handled nitrification in suspension. The fish behaved well the whole time because skipping a cycle with bottle bac is all cycles, all the time, unless we accept any stated reading as exactly correct without any challenge or application to logged pattern.

Fifteen pounds of ready rock runs any bioload the tank will ever see; the bottle bac was a waste but still its own carry capacity with no extra help, the live rock alone would skip cycle. Two fish can’t overpower fifteen pounds of live rock.

20201013_102948.png
 
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ZombieEngineer

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The ammonia is controlled, not out of control, or doom would be reported and not normal fish behavior. nh4 is being reported from a non digital kit. Don’t complete cycle umpire calls off non digital nh4 readings in tanks beyond day three using three day bottle bac and all happy animals in clear water after days of feeding. That means cycled, uncycled is dead fish gray water. Require nh3 reports from seneye or defer to Dr. Reef’s bottle bac thread where seneye was used as a benchmark.

I wouldn't consider 0.5 ppm in control. There is obviously error from an API kit, but the error could be the other way too. 124FEE7A-C271-486C-9209-57E1076A4B86.jpeg
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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I’m going to break a rare I will never post here again rule. I’m doing it because the forum is slipping back to 1998 cycling despite the work logged here from 2014 onward: what’s being posted goes against every seneye reading posted from a reef tank with animals behaving completely normal and symptomless.


There is no harm here, post a tank pic for proof.


not a pic of the reported test levels. A pic of the aquarium so we can see animal positioning in the pic

The ammonia is controlled, not out of control, or doom would be reported and not normal fish behavior. nh4 is being reported from a non digital kit. Don’t complete cycle umpire calls off non digital nh4 readings in tanks beyond day three using three day bottle bac and all happy animals in clear water after days of feeding. That means cycled, uncycled is dead fish gray water. Require nh3 reports from seneye or defer to Dr. Reef’s bottle bac thread where seneye was used as a benchmark.

Dr. Reef’s bottle bac thread is one hundred pages long. It charts the bottle bac deposition rate for any brand we want to know.

the date for implantation here is day three, and before implantation the swirling bac were active in this most expensive bottle bac and handled nitrification in suspension. The fish behaved well the whole time because skipping a cycle with bottle bac is all cycles, all the time, unless we accept any stated reading as exactly correct without any challenge or application to logged pattern.

Fifteen pounds of ready rock runs any bioload the tank will ever see; the bottle bac was a waste but still its own carry capacity with no extra help, the live rock alone would skip cycle. Two fish can’t overpower fifteen pounds of live rock.

20201013_102948.png
Clearly it didn't "skip cycle" if there's 0.5 ammonia!
 

brandon429

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That's proof and pattern to study because it's 30 pages of this exact cycle all applied with the same standard timing. How is our outcome rate looking for happy fish

I don't believe it's possible to claim this cycle here is unlike all those we closed with an exact start date. This is an inspectable pattern, I'll add this thread to page 31 when the pics are posted as we already have the known ammonia drop date in question and pointed out.

How did the spot checked seneye reports go in our thread for claims made?

The report above is nh4 not nh3


I can't state that any clearer

api reports nh4, after you convert api to nh3 and apply it to the chart above its over ten times less and the reading then matches the fish presentation quality we're about to see when a pic is posted

You guys are using the literal opposite of updated cycling science and in that leap millions of safe fish-in cycles were falsely discounted as ammonia burns.


They were disease vector risks; not ammonia risks. Not a single seneye reading from a calibrated unit exists to show a half, incomplete cycle. That's a made up fear that does not occur, our thirty pages show. If anyone would like to post a link of their pattern study I'll honestly read it before debating you.
 
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EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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That's proof and pattern you need to study because it's 30 pages of this exact cycle all applied with the same standard timing. How is our outcome rate looking for happy fish

How did the seneye reports go

The report above is nh4 not nh3


I can't state that any clearer

api reports nh4, after you convert api to nh3 and apply it to the chart above its over ten times less and the reading then matches the fish presentation quality we're about to see
Nope, nope nope.
 

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That's proof and pattern to study because it's 30 pages of this exact cycle all applied with the same standard timing. How is our outcome rate looking for happy fish

I don't believe it's possible to claim this cycle here is unlike all those we closed with an exact start date. This is an inspectable pattern, I'll add this thread to page 31 when the pics are posted as we already have the known ammonia drop date in question and pointed out.

How did the spot checked seneye reports go in our thread for claims made?

The report above is nh4 not nh3


I can't state that any clearer

api reports nh4, after you convert api to nh3 and apply it to the chart above its over ten times less and the reading then matches the fish presentation quality we're about to see when a pic is posted

You guys are using the literal opposite of updated cycling science and in that leap millions of safe fish-in cycles were falsely discounted as ammonia burns.


They were disease vector risks; not ammonia risks.
This comes directly from Randy Holmes Farley...

"
The toxicity of ammonia also depends strongly on the type of fish or other organism (as well as pH, noted above).

here's a guideline from one of my articles:

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

Ammonia Concentration Guidelines

Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system.

My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below."
 

brandon429

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@dieselgoose

please will you post a simple pic of your whole tank

from that pic we can see if it looks like an animal with no kidney function, or if it looks like one heck of a predictably normal happy animal

the chief signal of old cycling science is when someone tries to sell a peer on symptomless ammonia poisoning in sensitive respiring creatures. :)

just one pic ‘ll be fine. The pic is about to line up with Randy’s info above for the non toxic range, and so would any seneye reading. All the hoopla comes from non seneye owners…seneye owners just sit back and smile during ammonia burn debates.

Zombie, you’re trying to sell us on dangerous ammonia levels as stated by an nh4 relay on a non digital kit among healthy fish and clean water and days of feed and plenty of surface area (every reef tank cycle)

it’s easy to write nope x3 staring at 150 completed cycles with happy fish and seneye passed inspections, any entrant can be sent a message for confirmation.

why is it I’m not seeing an equal cycle thread using other peoples outcomes as a comparison post? On what basis can someone disagree with my patterns without their own linked up clearly for inspection?



the post I’m making here is for the readers studying this thread; I would never expect an adherent of old cycling science to agree with me until they own a seneye. I expect heels dug in, and relays of fear that will never match the actual tank picture. For pages
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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patterns from other peoples reefs, again. For pages a patterned outcome: non digital kits, fear based cycle umps, nh4 readings accepted as fact and not converted and all symptomless reefs.


wanna see ten more threads like those - eventually pattern will win out against false claims.




there are multiple seneyes above to check for reading patterns in digital nh3 meters + people who dose raw ammonia right into stocked reefs - what does ammonia do, and how fast does it go down when measured digitally? where are the tank symptoms to match the feared ammonia toxicity?


until I see some ammonia stall links that are pattern posts using other peoples tanks and digital nh3 measures included: readers, you’re seeing old cycling science vs updated cycling science playing out here. Old and dated cycling science is going to pitch you fear and risk in every setting; you can see from our 31 pages cycles don’t have incompletion issues: they complete on or before the ammonia line drop date on a cycling chart.

What the pic of the tank is about to show matters greatly.


Updated cycling science always factors heavily alongside reef tank symptomatology. Old cycling science runs completely opposite to the lack of symptoms shown in all home reefs linked above, and soon we may get pics of this tank to see how in line or out of line it appears to be when the nh4 readings aren’t the focus.
 
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dieselgoose

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@dieselgoose

please will you post a simple pic of your whole tank

from that pic we can see if it looks like an animal with no kidney function, or if it looks like one heck of a predictably normal happy animal

the chief signal of old cycling science is when someone tries to sell a peer on symptomless ammonia poisoning in sensitive respiring creatures. :)

just one pic ‘ll be fine. The pic is about to line up with Randy’s info above for the non toxic range, and so would any seneye reading. All the hoopla comes from non seneye owners…seneye owners just sit back and smile during ammonia burn debates.

Zombie, you’re trying to sell us on dangerous ammonia levels as stated by an nh4 relay on a non digital kit among healthy fish and clean water and days of feed and plenty of surface area (every reef tank cycle)

it’s easy to write nope x3 staring at 150 completed cycles with happy fish and seneye passed inspections, any entrant can be sent a message for confirmation.

why is it I’m not seeing an equal cycle thread using other peoples outcomes as a comparison post? On what basis can someone disagree with my patterns without their own linked up clearly for inspection?



the post I’m making here is for the readers studying this thread; I would never expect an adherent of old cycling science to agree with me until they own a seneye. I expect heels dug in, and relays of fear that will never match the actual tank picture. For pages
I had to go into work but as soon as I get home in the morning I will post a pic.
 

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