Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

2Sunny

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So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and have directions, but I see no ammonia additives for sale. In my limited knowledge, I understand stump remover is a form of ammonia, but I would have zero idea on how to make use of such . . .

so . . .

How would one get hold of ammonia? What calculations would be required? What would one monitor to check the impact?

And, no, I'm not going to run out and start dumping ammonia in my tank so don't worry. I'm just starting the learning process so I can understand what would be involved.

Thanks to any and all that have answers.
 
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homer1475

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Stump remover is dosed for nitrate(potassium nitrate to be exact) dosing, not ammonia.

Why would you want to dose ammonia? When we talk nutrients we are speaking of nitrate and phosphate.

Not exactly following the reasoning behind the idea on an up and running tank that has already been cycled.
 
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2Sunny

2Sunny

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I have only "dosed" ammonium chloride when starting a new tank cycle. I'm unsure on dosing an up and running tank though
Stump remover is dosed for nitrate(potassium nitrate to be exact) dosing, not ammonia.

Why would you want to dose ammonia? When we talk nutrients we are speaking of nitrate and phosphate.

Not exactly following the reasoning behind the idea on an up and running tank that has already been cycled.

I recently started another discussion: When and where did dosing nitrate start?
In the course of 10 pages of discussion one of our resident scientists argued quite convincingly in my mind that dosing ammonia is scientifically preferable to dosing nitrate. Now I'm curious and would like to try myself, but I'm afraid it may be a little to avant garde an idea for me to try easily.
 

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Stump remover is dosed for nitrate(potassium nitrate to be exact) dosing, not ammonia.

Why would you want to dose ammonia? When we talk nutrients we are speaking of nitrate and phosphate.

Not exactly following the reasoning behind the idea on an up and running tank that has already been cycled.
His question is about dosing ammonia so it will turn into nitrates. It is an interesting idea, but way too easy to overdose and kill everything quickly. Way too dangerous. Too many people have overdosed it for new tanks and killed their cycle before it ever began. I wouldn't think about trying it. Nitrates is the end cycle and much easier and safer to use. High nitrates can harm a tank. Crash it eventually. High ammonia is instant crash.
 
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flampton

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I recently started another discussion: When and where did dosing nitrate start?
In the course of 10 pages of discussion one of our resident scientists argued quite convincingly in my mind that dosing ammonia is scientifically preferable to dosing nitrate. Now I'm curious and would like to try myself, but I'm afraid it may be a little to avant garde an idea for me to try easily.

Yeah was probably me. Could you list your goal? E.g. do you want to get to visible nitrates or just add a bit of ammonia to help improve health.

The fearmongers never have a problem with any other chemical we add but ammonia. I find this fascinating.
 

homer1475

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I figured the end result was nitrate, but have read where corals can consume ammonia much more easily then nitrate, and actually prefer it. Just wanted to make sure I was following correctly.
 
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2Sunny

2Sunny

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His question is about dosing ammonia so it will turn into nitrates. It is an interesting idea, but way too easy to overdose and kill everything quickly. Way too dangerous. Too many people have overdosed it for new tanks and killed their cycle before it ever began. I wouldn't think about trying it. Nitrates is the end cycle and much easier and safer to use. High nitrates can harm a tank. Crash it eventually. High ammonia is instant crash.
Yes, this issue was brought up in the discussion and is the reason I started this thread. Many of the chemicals we put in our tank have the possibility of overdosing. That does not concern me. I do not think this is an idea for a newbie or for those mathematically challenged, but with a background in engineering a little chemistry math does not make me overly concerned especially given the resource of this forum as a backup.

You guys really should read the thread link I posted above. It's quite interesting.
 

flampton

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I wouldn't be afraid to dose ammonia, but if the end result is just the nitrate, wouldn't it be easier, and safer to just dose that?

Well you can dose to see nitrate, which establishes that all your occupants are receiving enough ammonia. Ammonia is preferred because nitrate is expensive to use (costs energy). It is basically a way to make sure your tank has enough nitrogen. So basically the nitrate number is just a tool to understand the nitrogen flux.
 
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2Sunny

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Well you can dose to see nitrate, which establishes that all your occupants are receiving enough ammonia. Ammonia is preferred because nitrate is expensive to use (costs energy). It is basically a way to make sure your tank has enough nitrogen. So basically the nitrate number is just a tool to understand the nitrogen flux.
Ah hah. You showed up already!

So, I don't have the funds to be the Angel Investor in your idea, but I'd certainly love to try and see if I notice any differences. As I said in my opener at this point in growing out my reef I normally go out and buy 20 damsels, but rather than doing that this time I thought I might try something new.

I am 100% open to suggestions on how to implement this idea.
 

homer1475

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Ammonia is preferred because nitrate is expensive to use (costs energy).
I've read this a few times now, and not just on here. And is the reason I clicked on the thread to follow.

Anecdotal, but I have noticed my corals look better with the addition of more fish(more ammonia) recently, yet my nutrient(No3, PO4)levels remain as stable as before the addition.
 

Ippyroy

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Yes, this issue was brought up in the discussion and is the reason I started this thread. Many of the chemicals we put in our tank have the possibility of overdosing. That does not concern me. I do not think this is an idea for a newbie or for those mathematically challenged, but with a background in engineering a little chemistry math does not make me overly concerned especially given the resource of this forum as a backup.

You guys really should read the thread link I posted above. It's quite interesting.
I can see the benefits and I understand it. Risk vs. reward. Risk nuking and killing tank. Reward is possibly faster growing coral. Risk is too high for limited reward. There are other safer methods. Everything I put in my tank is from a small container that will not nuke my tank. I refill each one weekly and keep all pumps in clean working order. A weeks worth of soda ash will hurt my tank for sure. Crash maybe. A week's worth of ammonia? Dead tank for sure.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I wouldn't be afraid to dose ammonia, but if the end result is just the nitrate, wouldn't it be easier, and safer to just dose that?

The end goal is organisms taking up ammonia, not forming nitrate.
 
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homer1475

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Like I said....

More fish, more ammonia, better looking corals, but no rise in nitrates(exactly what I'm currently seeing in my tank). I get the idea, just not sure if the risk is worth the reward.

Could I use the API test kit for this experiment? :p
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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This idea of dosing ammonia has been around for ages. Here's a thread from 2013 where someone experimented with it. They saw some "effects" (both positive and negative, by their reckoning), but it didn't seem to change much, IMO.

 

brandon429

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we would not drive to 2 ppm like normal, merely supplementing.

how much to add? have a seneye running is best bet I'd think. (not sure what other meters show thousandths ppm nh3 in live time)


love this thread. its exactly in line with the notion that reefs are hungry for ammonia, lap it up immediately, so adding some into a common system of massively overdone surface area (all our tanks) is no harm. the reefs convert the nh3 form very fast.


but where's the extra nutrient support, aka fish food

Ammonia seems rather limited as a nutrient but agreed no harm for any reef / put some dr tims AC in there if you want its just going to be converted quickly like the rest. this is why no reef tank cycles stall out once the timeframes are in place to allow bacterial coverage on all that surface area. ammonia is never left hovering, its substrate gold in a reef. extremely fast conversion rates, seneye nh3 trackers show.
 
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2Sunny

2Sunny

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This idea of dosing ammonia has been around for ages. Here's a thread from 2013 where someone experimented with it. They saw some "effects" (both positive and negative, by their reckoning), but it didn't seem to change much, IMO.

Very interesting. Just goes to show what's old is new :)

I have 3 thoughts 1) he documented changes in coral color with photos even 2) I have a doser and he did not so I'm thinking I could use an extremely dilute solution dosed evenly over 24 hours and 3) he kept dosing even after nitrate increased and I assume that would be a no-no.
 
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