Cycling HELP!

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I wouldn’t rate that bottle bac brand he used as the fastest either, but at week six it doesn’t matter now/all cycles are done after a month wait up and low bioload + high dilution + water bacteria make for such a commonly good cycle any thread we search for the last ten years on the matter has fish doing fine.


and any seneye thread we search shows nh3 controlled just fine. No burn levels from day one.

imagine if a vet just diagnosed all animals coming into the clinic as suffering from liver failure regardless of symptoms…that’s how anti fish cycling works. Because you did it, the fish are burned, end of story, symptoms don’t apply.

BRS and fish in cycling



sellers use cycling information that is different from what buyers are trained to use by forum peers, that’s a fact.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Phil now down to the fun stuff-

now that brooklynella and cryptocaryon are vectored into the tank, next steps? :)
 

Dburr1014

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I know there is a million and 1 of these posts but this hobby is so situational I figured I would reach out for help.

I’m about 6 weeks in to my “cycle”

I have a brand new Red Sea Reefer 250 G2, dry rock, live sand, Microbacter XLM (whole bottle), and 4 fish in the tank t, roller mat off, skimmer off.

For about 3.5 weeks my ammonia has been .25-.5ppm and nitrite just hit .25ppm about 2 weeks ago. nitrate hovers around 5-10pm and I haven’t done a single water change yet.

I feel like I did something wrong here because the tank just does not want to cycle. The fish are doing fine (eating normally totally healthy acting normal) with the lights off. I feed 2x a day, pellets in the AM and frozen in the PM.

At this point it just seems like the cycle is frozen in some weird stage, especially that no paramaters are changing at all for weeks with 0 mechanical filtration and 0 water changes. (PS I test NH3, NO2, NO3 every day)

I need help and advice here. PLEASE.
Your tank is cycled, get some better test kits.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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*I honestly wish we could just get a new cycling article from whoever the best chemist on the matter is, that way when we disagree in posts folks can just counter link that article back and forth.

imagine what alignment that would provide to the hobby

something peer reviewed, it will calm everyone if it's peer-reviewed science and until we get some formal ruling on what bottle bac cycles do, what live rock transfer cycles do, we're in the wild wild west of reef tank cycling.

when was the last time we got any cycling article from someone who did not sell bottle bac? was it Shimek? A Bingman or Borneman writeup from 00's? I truly want to know what's the last in-depth cycling article we were given as reefers, I want to see if it delineates dry rock + bottle bac cycling, live rock transfer cycling, uncured ocean rock cure cycling, and feed-only no bottle bac 30 day wait cycling. I want an article that doesn't try to sell me bottle bac, or claim that live rock transfer cycles stall without showing digital nh3 proofing.

if said article details reef tank unassisted cycling, that's no feed, no bottle bac, super long wait time, I'll think it's the best article ever written for reefing. This last option is left out of all printed cycling material so far. only web threads exist for the new factors in cycling science, someone needs to maestro them into a magazine article.


where is a cycling article that isn't cut-and-paste add 2ppm ammonia to a bottle of bac in reef tank water?

I'm fascinated by studying where us reefers got our cycle training. all the passion we write comes from belief in it.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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The sum total rule of all current cycling knowledge in 2022 is that there are no real cycle help threads (they are test misread threads, or test reading interpretation error threads as covered prior during the mention of nh4/3)

no cycles need help, they're all done at the time of posting. <-a very debatable claim in the world of no recent cycling articles available to match the emergence of what digital nh3 meters read during cycles

I've seen some poor acclimation stressed fish before, and some fish put into a tank sealed with the bad silicone from home depot flailing about, but I've never seen calibrated seneye agree a cycle was broken: not one time ever.
 
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phildoingthings

phildoingthings

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You may be aware, but if not, the API Ammonia tests for total ammonia. This value can be misleading, as what is poisonous is the NH3/toxic ammonia, and measuring that requires that you use a conversion table with your PH and temperature readings. There are tables that estimate what total ammonia is acceptable given specific PH and temp readings where the toxic ammonia is estimated as a percentage of total ammonia. Given there is always some form of ammonia present, and your value mimics the same .25 measured by many people, you’re likely in the clear. Of course a water change won’t hurt, but all your results point to a cycled tank.
Thank you for the insight
 
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phildoingthings

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Nice skip cycle

You handled groundless consequence statements accurately, fish that behave normally indeed are not burned


Read this thread, everything typed applies to your cycle question, and DIFish nice job that's accurate info

Notice what happens when groupthink originates from not owning seneye ammonia meters or validating them in others posts, the cycle fear crowd can get stuff shut down if they're angry enough at what seneye says about cycling in general


.25 is what cycled reefs run at on api.
hey thank you for the insight. I appreciate the help. This is my first really nice tank with a sump and I want to make sure it’s done correctly. Spent a lot of time battling headaches in the past or adding products without asking the right questions. Thanks!!
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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They are perfectly fine if you look at their swimming behavior, feeding habits, gills and scales. Ammonia poisoning has well known and obvious signs…..red or bleeding gills, color change, heavy breathing. None of which my fish experienced so yes they are fine.
Which is why I suggested your test results are wrong. If your fish have been in 6 weeks and exposed to ammonia the entire time (you said you've done no water changes and have limited filtration), then they definitely WOULD be in distress!
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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The sum total rule of all current cycling knowledge in 2022 is that there are no real cycle help threads (they are test misread threads, or test reading interpretation error threads as covered prior during the mention of nh4/3)

no cycles need help, they're all done at the time of posting. <-a very debatable claim in the world of no recent cycling articles available to match the emergence of what digital nh3 meters read during cycles

I've seen some poor acclimation stressed fish before, and some fish put into a tank sealed with the bad silicone from home depot flailing about, but I've never seen calibrated seneye agree a cycle was broken: not one time ever.
^^^Seneye sales pitch!
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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*I honestly wish we could just get a new cycling article from whoever the best chemist on the matter is, that way when we disagree in posts folks can just counter link that article back and forth.

imagine what alignment that would provide to the hobby

something peer reviewed, it will calm everyone if it's peer-reviewed science and until we get some formal ruling on what bottle bac cycles do, what live rock transfer cycles do, we're in the wild wild west of reef tank cycling.

when was the last time we got any cycling article from someone who did not sell bottle bac? was it Shimek? A Bingman or Borneman writeup from 00's? I truly want to know what's the last in-depth cycling article we were given as reefers, I want to see if it delineates dry rock + bottle bac cycling, live rock transfer cycling, uncured ocean rock cure cycling, and feed-only no bottle bac 30 day wait cycling. I want an article that doesn't try to sell me bottle bac, or claim that live rock transfer cycles stall without showing digital nh3 proofing.

if said article details reef tank unassisted cycling, that's no feed, no bottle bac, super long wait time, I'll think it's the best article ever written for reefing. This last option is left out of all printed cycling material so far. only web threads exist for the new factors in cycling science, someone needs to maestro them into a magazine article.


where is a cycling article that isn't cut-and-paste add 2ppm ammonia to a bottle of bac in reef tank water?

I'm fascinated by studying where us reefers got our cycle training. all the passion we write comes from belief in it.
@brandon429 , the issue is that many people want a quick fix and won't take the time for a cycle like you describe above. For those unable to use live/establish rock, instead of waiting for in situ nitrifying bacteria to reproduce to large enough numbers on its own, adding additional bacteria (from a bottle) helps speed up the process. I don't think this is a bad thing... the end result is the same - colony of nitrifying bacteria that can handle (process) the bioload of the tank. Why do you have such a problem with that?

Edit: as to needing a new, peer reviewed study on cycling, there is no need! We fully understand the nitrogen cycle and have for quite a while. There is no ambiguity about it. Specific products may not do what they claim to do, but that's not the same thing as saying new studies are needed to support the basic process.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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I did a bacteria cycle. Ordered coral while cycling, and it got here before I “thought” my tank was cycled. Was at the same levels you are .25 Ammonia, .25 nitrite, 10nitrate. Did a coral dip and popped these puppies in before I even had fish in. Everything is puffed up and thriving. Now on my journey to stabilizing Alk/Calc/phos. And these weren’t just “softies.” A pair of torches, a hammer, a welso, and a few acans.
Coral use ammonia (and nitrites and nitrates) for food. Aside from the overall immaturity of a new tank, coral can go in day 1.
 
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phildoingthings

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I wouldn’t rate that bottle bac brand he used as the fastest either, but at week six it doesn’t matter now/all cycles are done after a month wait up and low bioload + high dilution + water bacteria make for such a commonly good cycle any thread we search for the last ten years on the matter has fish doing fine.


and any seneye thread we search shows nh3 controlled just fine. No burn levels from day one.

imagine if a vet just diagnosed all animals coming into the clinic as suffering from liver failure regardless of symptoms…that’s how anti fish cycling works. Because you did it, the fish are burned, end of story, symptoms don’t apply.

BRS and fish in cycling



sellers use cycling information that is different from what buyers are trained to use by forum peers, that’s a fact.

Yeah exactly! Everyone has an opinion but just because something CAN happen doesn’t mean it WILL. I love my fish and I knew going in that they would more than likely be okay. I even had a cycled QT tank ready in case I had to pull them fast.
 

Dburr1014

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@brandon429

Edit: as to needing a new, peer reviewed study on cycling, there is no need! We fully understand the nitrogen cycle and have for quite a while. There is no ambiguity about it. Specific products may not do what they claim to do, but that's not the same thing as saying new studies are needed to support the basic process.
.... But, here we are again. Another "am I cycled?" thread.
I think he may just be asking for an updated article on cycling basics and not a whole study being done. It's in his first sentance.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I promise as soon as we as a hobby start seeing seneye posters report in pattern that their cycle approach broke, stalled, or didn't work this rogue cycling approach from me will cease and I will comply with the masses on their cycling paradigms.


as long as it persists, no calibrated seneye cycle ever causing fear among cyclers, old cycling science is the rogue in the room heh
 

Garf

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Seneye don’t seem that reliable to me;

You may recognize the OP.

 
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phildoingthings

phildoingthings

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UPDATE:
Did a 25% water change, blew off all the dry rock and cleaned glass, and turned skimmer & roller mat back on.

tested water about 5 hours later and came back with:
Amm .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 5-10

Turned the lights on and put the 2 or 3 frags I had in QT in the tank. Seems like the cycle is in fact complete. Thanks for all the help guys
 

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