Cycling

[Psherman42]

Hi guys. I'm getting back into the hobby after about 5 years. 3 weeks ago I setup a 120L tank. I added carib sea ocean direct live sand (about 3 inches) and dry live rock that was taken from an old well established system (it was dried for about 4-5 months) so its completely dead. I done this because it was cheaper. I got like 60kg of it for £75. I know as soon as it hit the water again all that dead stuff would break down producing ammonia, I like my tanks natural as possible. 3 weeks in im at 0 ammonia 2-3 nitrite and 25 nitrate. For the first 2 weeks the tank ran without a filter then I added a large 1000lph canister filter. My question is, I did not dose any bacteria or anything. I get paid next Monday and would really really like to add a pair of clowns or a royal gramma. Thats 7 days from now. So I looked online and purchased some seachem stability and seachem prime.

My question is, will the stability boost the bacteria enough in one week to get the levels to 0? Does it actually work? I'm just really excited to add some life.

I done a triple dose of stability to try get some bacteria in the filter and help out in the tank. I cranked up the temp to 28°c and will continue to dose per the bottles instruction for the 7 days.

Any help is appreciated, and im so glad to be back! TIA

Here's my tank.

 

[EnterName]

Your tank should be cycled and doing fine otherwise you wouldn't have nitrite in your system. If you want to test if the tank is fish-safe you can take some baker's ammonia (ammonium bicarbonate) to add some ammonia into your system (e.g. 1ppm) and see how fast it drops down to 0ppm again.

Edit: Your nitrate test will yield false readings when nitrite is present.

 

[Fish Fan]

I think you're good to add some Clownfish, which are quite hardy

You could indeed test your system as mentioned by EnterName above.

You have the right bacteria present because you're seeing nitrite, so at least the ammonia oxidising bacteria are in place. I would personally skip both the Stability and Prime, especially if tight on cash. The Stability product is likely alright, but you don't need it. You've already got the bacteria you want, they may just need a little more time to grow.

Seachem Prime is a fine dechloritator, but its claims of reducing ammonia have been tested and short story, that claim is largely false. Here's some info on those tests:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-prime-actually-detoxify-free-ammonia-nh3.849985/

My chem is quite rusty, but I believe each 1 ppm of ammonia gives about 2.7 ppm nitrite. Let's say your nitrite is 2.50 ppm (half way between 2 ppm and 3 ppm you reported), if you divide out 2.50/2.70 we get about 0.926. Let's round that up to 1, and therefore your tank produced about 1.00 ppm ammonia. I think that's right

1.00 ppm ammonia is about the lowest concentration of ammonia you'd want to start your cycle, but it's acceptable, in my opinion. And again, Clownfish are very hardy, at one time Clownfish were used to fish-in cycle aquaria back before bacteria-in-a-bottle products. I don't personally suggest a fish-in cycle anymore, other methods exist, but the truth is the Clownfish should pull through just fine, unless there's some other issue.

But long story short, I think you're good to add a couple very hard fish next week

A couple other thoughts that I hope will help: as long as your ammonia is zero, you're good to go. Nitrite is non-toxic in saltwater, unlike how it is in freshwater aquaria, so there's no need to test for it, or wait for it to zero out. Please see this comment from Randy Holmes-Farley - a professional chemist - follow the link he provides for a greater explanation if you wish:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrite-toxicity.402708/post-4805029

A large part of the nitrate you're measuring right now is because of the nitrite, which, though non-toxic, causes an artificially inflated result for nitrate. Therefore, you really don't know what your true nitrate concentration is until the nitrite zeros out. That may be the one reason why you'd want to test for nitrite again in a few days to a week or so. Here's another post from Randy Holmes-Farley on this, and he mentions his dislike of Seachem Prime too
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-need-a-little-help-please.1167275/post-14482051

I hope this help and good luck!

 

[EnterName]

I think you're good to add some Clownfish, which are quite hardy

You could indeed test your system as mentioned by EnterName above.

You have the right bacteria present because you're seeing nitrite, so at least the ammonia oxidising bacteria are in place. I would personally skip both the Stability and Prime, especially if tight on cash. The Stability product is likely alright, but you don't need it. You've already got the bacteria you want, they may just need a little more time to grow.

Seachem Prime is a fine dechloritator, but its claims of reducing ammonia have been tested and short story, that claim is largely false. Here's some info on those tests:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-prime-actually-detoxify-free-ammonia-nh3.849985/

My chem is quite rusty, but I believe each 1 ppm of ammonia gives about 2.7 ppm nitrite. Let's say your nitrite is 2.50 ppm (half way between 2 ppm and 3 ppm you reported), if you divide out 2.50/2.70 we get about 0.926. Let's round that up to 1, and therefore your tank produced about 1.00 ppm ammonia. I think that's right

1.00 ppm ammonia is about the lowest concentration of ammonia you'd want to start your cycle, but it's acceptable, in my opinion. And again, Clownfish are very hardy, at one time Clownfish were used to fish-in cycle aquaria back before bacteria-in-a-bottle products. I don't personally suggest a fish-in cycle anymore, other methods exist, but the truth is the Clownfish should pull through just fine, unless there's some other issue.

But long story short, I think you're good to add a couple very hard fish next week

A couple other thoughts that I hope will help: as long as your ammonia is zero, you're good to go. Nitrite is non-toxic in saltwater, unlike how it is in freshwater aquaria, so there's no need to test for it, or wait for it to zero out. Please see this comment from Randy Holmes-Farley - a professional chemist - follow the link he provides for a greater explanation if you wish:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrite-toxicity.402708/post-4805029

A large part of the nitrate you're measuring right now is because of the nitrite, which, though non-toxic, causes an artificially inflated result for nitrate. Therefore, you really don't know what your true nitrate concentration is until the nitrite zeros out. That may be the one reason why you'd want to test for nitrite again in a few days to a week or so. Here's another post from Randy Holmes-Farley on this, and he mentions his dislike of Seachem Prime too
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-need-a-little-help-please.1167275/post-14482051

I hope this help and good luck!

Just coming back here to mention that I really appreciate the time you invested in that very nicely written and detailed post.

 

[Fish Fan]

Just coming back here to mention that I really appreciate the time you invested in that very nicely written and detailed post.

Wow, than you so much!!

I very much appreciate that comment

 

[Psherman42]

I think you're good to add some Clownfish, which are quite hardy

You could indeed test your system as mentioned by EnterName above.

You have the right bacteria present because you're seeing nitrite, so at least the ammonia oxidising bacteria are in place. I would personally skip both the Stability and Prime, especially if tight on cash. The Stability product is likely alright, but you don't need it. You've already got the bacteria you want, they may just need a little more time to grow.

Seachem Prime is a fine dechloritator, but its claims of reducing ammonia have been tested and short story, that claim is largely false. Here's some info on those tests:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-prime-actually-detoxify-free-ammonia-nh3.849985/

My chem is quite rusty, but I believe each 1 ppm of ammonia gives about 2.7 ppm nitrite. Let's say your nitrite is 2.50 ppm (half way between 2 ppm and 3 ppm you reported), if you divide out 2.50/2.70 we get about 0.926. Let's round that up to 1, and therefore your tank produced about 1.00 ppm ammonia. I think that's right

1.00 ppm ammonia is about the lowest concentration of ammonia you'd want to start your cycle, but it's acceptable, in my opinion. And again, Clownfish are very hardy, at one time Clownfish were used to fish-in cycle aquaria back before bacteria-in-a-bottle products. I don't personally suggest a fish-in cycle anymore, other methods exist, but the truth is the Clownfish should pull through just fine, unless there's some other issue.

But long story short, I think you're good to add a couple very hard fish next week

A couple other thoughts that I hope will help: as long as your ammonia is zero, you're good to go. Nitrite is non-toxic in saltwater, unlike how it is in freshwater aquaria, so there's no need to test for it, or wait for it to zero out. Please see this comment from Randy Holmes-Farley - a professional chemist - follow the link he provides for a greater explanation if you wish:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrite-toxicity.402708/post-4805029

A large part of the nitrate you're measuring right now is because of the nitrite, which, though non-toxic, causes an artificially inflated result for nitrate. Therefore, you really don't know what your true nitrate concentration is until the nitrite zeros out. That may be the one reason why you'd want to test for nitrite again in a few days to a week or so. Here's another post from Randy Holmes-Farley on this, and he mentions his dislike of Seachem Prime too
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-need-a-little-help-please.1167275/post-14482051

I hope this help and good luck!

Great detailed explanation. Thanks for that. My nitrite was about 5ppm a few days ago and has dropped since then. I know that nitrite is non toxic below around 100ppm I believe. Just other people on Facebook groups ect told me no. I'm not very patient as a person, so a month of just a bare tank im holding my breath lol. Do u think a royal gramma would be okay? I know they are hardy but I also heard they can take over the tank if added first. I added those big barnicles for him to hopefully live in. Or do u just recommend clowns? And some gsp, pulsing xenia and a kenya tree? How about a torch or should I wait a bit longer?
I was also looking at a pair of sexy shrimp along with the fish but I know I can't add too much at once.

 

[Fish Fan]

Great detailed explanation. Thanks for that. My nitrite was about 5ppm a few days ago and has dropped since then. I know that nitrite is non toxic below around 100ppm I believe. Just other people on Facebook groups ect told me no. I'm not very patient as a person, so a month of just a bare tank im holding my breath lol. Do u think a royal gramma would be okay? I know they are hardy but I also heard they can take over the tank if added first. I added those big barnicles for him to hopefully live in. Or do u just recommend clowns? And some gsp, pulsing xenia and a kenya tree? How about a torch or should I wait a bit longer?
I was also looking at a pair of sexy shrimp along with the fish but I know I can't add too much at once.

You're welcome, I'm glad that you found my reply helpful

Here's my take on the Clownfish and Gramma; others may have had different experiences as all fish are individuals:

Clownfish for sure are likely to take over the whole tank if added first, and will often aggressively attack fish that are added afterwards, especially if they start spawning. Clownfish can be very aggressive fish, and you may not see the aggression, they do it when you're not looking, for real. You can setup your phone camera to record them and step out of the room, and you may be surprised

The Gramma can go either way. I see them as semi-aggressive in general, but very peaceful and very aggressive individuals are known. Depending on what you get, they too can take over a tank if added first.

Your mileage may vary

 

[Psherman42]

You're welcome, I'm glad that you found my reply helpful

Here's my take on the Clownfish and Gramma; others may have had different experiences as all fish are individuals:

Clownfish for sure are likely to take over the whole tank if added first, and will often aggressively attack fish that are added afterwards, especially if they start spawning. Clownfish can be very aggressive fish, and you may not see the aggression, they do it when you're not looking, for real. You can setup your phone camera to record them and step out of the room, and you may be surprised

The Gramma can go either way. I see them as semi-aggressive in general, but very peaceful and very aggressive individuals are known. Depending on what you get, they too can take over a tank if added first.

Your mileage may vary

Hi, after dosing seachem stability yesterday I just done a quick test. My nitrites have dropped from 3 to 1 overnight. So looking good. Looks like im on course for Monday :) may I ask, ive always done the common clownfish. Do u recommend any designers? I really really wanted a pair of mocha longfin clowns but they are incredibly hard and expensive to get here. £600 for a pair to be exact. I'm not sure what to get.

 

[Fish Fan]

Hi, after dosing seachem stability yesterday I just done a quick test. My nitrites have dropped from 3 to 1 overnight. So looking good. Looks like im on course for Monday :) may I ask, ive always done the common clownfish. Do u recommend any designers? I really really wanted a pair of mocha longfin clowns but they are incredibly hard and expensive to get here. £600 for a pair to be exact. I'm not sure what to get.

That's up to you and what you prefer, they are your fish

I personally prefer the regular, wild-type Clownfish over the designer patterns.

And your nitrite is non-toxic, and not worth testing for or waiting for it to go to zero. If you're ammonia is down from its max, then you're good to go.