Cycling

[RoniM]

29g tank with live rock has been cycling x 3 weeks. Ammonia is off the chart. Nitrite and nitrate at 0. Ph 7.2
Fritz turbo, ammonia, nitrocycle... didn't work.
Prime and stability.... not working. Should i just do a large water change and try again? I added a CUC once i had algae growth, they seem ok... I'm just lost. QT tank is perfect though. 10g a small container of sand...2 clowns

 

[keithmeseroll]

29g tank with live rock has been cycling x 3 weeks. Ammonia is off the chart. Nitrite and nitrate at 0. Ph 7.2
Fritz turbo, ammonia, nitrocycle... didn't work.
Prime and stability.... not working. Should i just do a large water change and try again? I added a CUC once i had algae growth, they seem ok... I'm just lost. QT tank is perfect though. 10g a small container of sand...2 clowns

Give it time. Took about 6 weeks with live stone and sand to get my 30g to cycle. I'd just keep dosing bacteria to help trigger the cycle

 

[brandon429]

Your test kits are misreading. Post a pic of your tank

I have ten threads where ammonia was stated as 8 ppm in years old running reef tanks. Non digital test kits are easily confounded, false stall. Post a tank pic.

 

[brandon429]

Prime caused it. False stall. See this thread:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

There are no stalled cycles in reefing and none take longer than ten days, except for non seneye ammonia test owners. Notice that rule has held for forty pages of cycle work in other people's tanks, your cycle was done by day 3. Those brands you used have a 72 hour implantation time, already charted in Dr. Reefs bottle bac study thread.

Prime is a false additive see chemistry forum study on it here on the site, search it out. There isn't any time you'd use it in reefing or quarantine work, it only messes up your test kits. It specifically doesn't bind ammonia, your ammonia isn't off the charts its in the thousandths ppm nh3 but you'd have to own seneye to see that.

 

[Rmckoy]

If you used true “ live rock ) which come from an established system with livestock in it your cycle was finished the moment you set it up .

But I’m not sure what effect dosing all these additives would have .

With ammonia off the chart .. I can see something wrong such as over dosing ammonia , or could be test error depends what kit you’re using and if it was done properly which can easily be done

Stop dosing anything and see what the levels are after 24hrs .
Ideally you will and need to see nitrates . Forget about testing nitrite unless you want to test only for the purpose of following a old style cycle and to see how it progresses through each step

Ph …. I rarely ever . It’s been years since I’ve tested ph .
It will naturally fluctuate from day to night and unless you’re testing at the exact same time it will always be different


As Brandon requested . Please post pictures of your tank .
After this long I would also bet it’s ready but with high levels of ammonia I would test with a different kit prior to investing money in livestock .

 

[brandon429]

The only way you'd feel confident is to do a full water change. I realize it's too much to believe that the tank isn't ridden with ammonia, it makes sense as our training in cycling for this hobby solely revolves around selling us multiple bottles of bacteria, believing cheap test kits at all cost

the people who make old cycling science reef tank cycling videos and rules articles are bottle bac sellers. Cycling works differently when nobody is trying to sell you extra things.


Look at the feedback on each page from participants in the cycling update changes

Consider their outcome: are they happy, with tanks carrying fish and no losses for three years?

Let's say that the rule we use to guide all those thousands of dollars of cycles above, with an exact start date given not an open- ended test wait out, is false. If we remove from the read any statement made about what bacteria do in water and by when, we're left with this action set:

- someone adds bottle bac and some feed, has let it stew for more than ten days, does a full water change if in doubt (this leaves cycling bac stuck to surfaces and clears doubtful water column) and proceeds to reef any time after day ten. Gets the results you see

What are the chances in your tank that it will work fine, independent from cycle testing (you'll never run ammonia or nitrite tests ever again on it) if you did those steps above? The chance is 100%

That's too big of a pattern set to think that any cycle on this site didn't pan out by day ten wait.

 

[brandon429]

Do the big water change and add fish that you acclimated from the rules in the disease forum (which is not bag floating acclimation its tank salinity dropping to match the lfs salinity your fish are brought home in, then over three days time you slowly raise to actual reef salinity)

If you'll do those steps I'll use your thread as the #1 read example in the thread for the next two years. We'll pattern 600 cycles off your thread here. Could be a really beneficial learning example for hundreds of new cyclers to come to our thread in the coming years...nitro cycle is powerful stuff not even counting the other brands added plus the wait time. It's a sure bet

Be sure and read the disease forum for correct fish acclimation. It's very unique and specific compared to what sellers have you do. It's designed to eliminate a very common cause of first use fish stress: osmotic shock from bag floating acclimation over two hours vs three days

 

[Rmckoy]

Do the big water change and add fish that you acclimated from the rules in the disease forum (which is not bag floating acclimation its tank salinity dropping to match the lfs salinity your fish are brought home in, then over three days time you slowly raise to actual reef salinity)

If you'll do those steps I'll use your thread as the #1 read example in the thread for the next two years. We'll pattern 600 cycles off your thread here. Could be a really beneficial learning example for hundreds of new cyclers to come to our thread in the coming years...nitro cycle is powerful stuff not even counting the other brands added plus the wait time. It's a sure bet

Be sure and read the disease forum for correct fish acclimation. It's very unique and specific compared to what sellers have you do. It's designed to eliminate a very common cause of first use fish stress: osmotic shock from bag floating acclimation over two hours vs three days

Now I have a new challenge for you ….

How many eager new members are willing to let their tank sit fallow to quarantine their new fish in such hobby where everyone wants instant gratification of having a “ marine or reef tank in their house “

I would bet it’s a very small percentage and why we see so many “ is this normal clownfish behaviour “
Or “ can anyone identify it hats wrong with my fish “

 

[brandon429]

Roni here's one more independent study to weigh

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

www.reef2reef.com

Which brand of bottle bac wasn't ready by day ten

Which brand of bacteria were ready in two days

What brand of bacteria does Dr Reef use in his giant qt fish business, to instantly cycle any fish holding container without wait: the brand you used, not counting the other supports in place. See how certain cycling is in reefing? We never have doubts when using updated cycling science

 

[Dburr1014]

29g tank with live rock has been cycling x 3 weeks. Ammonia is off the chart. Nitrite and nitrate at 0. Ph 7.2
Fritz turbo, ammonia, nitrocycle... didn't work.
Prime and stability.... not working. Should i just do a large water change and try again? I added a CUC once i had algae growth, they seem ok... I'm just lost. QT tank is perfect though. 10g a small container of sand...2 clowns

Anyone ask how this was done?

If you added ammonia only once, it should have climbed and gone down. Add the second time to see if it goes down in 24 hours.
Then no more ammonia.
Is this what you did??
If so, your done.
If you kept adding ammonia, stop. That's not the way.

 

[ScottJ]

Do the big water change and add fish that you acclimated from the rules in the disease forum (which is not bag floating acclimation its tank salinity dropping to match the lfs salinity your fish are brought home in, then over three days time you slowly raise to actual reef salinity)

If you'll do those steps I'll use your thread as the #1 read example in the thread for the next two years. We'll pattern 600 cycles off your thread here. Could be a really beneficial learning example for hundreds of new cyclers to come to our thread in the coming years...nitro cycle is powerful stuff not even counting the other brands added plus the wait time. It's a sure bet

Be sure and read the disease forum for correct fish acclimation. It's very unique and specific compared to what sellers have you do. It's designed to eliminate a very common cause of first use fish stress: osmotic shock from bag floating acclimation over two hours vs three days

Hey Brandon,
Could you point me in the direction of that thread you are referring to about acclimating for salinity over 3 days? I found the article Jay wrote on acclamation (really good) but it wasn't real detailed on going from low fish store salinity to our tanks 1.025.
(I think I may have bone-headedly lost a fish recently doing it wrong)

Thanks!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

29g tank with live rock has been cycling x 3 weeks. Ammonia is off the chart. Nitrite and nitrate at 0. Ph 7.2
Fritz turbo, ammonia, nitrocycle... didn't work.
Prime and stability.... not working. Should i just do a large water change and try again? I added a CUC once i had algae growth, they seem ok... I'm just lost. QT tank is perfect though. 10g a small container of sand...2 clowns

If your ammonia was "off the chart", your CUC would be dead.

 

[Tired]

What kind of live rock?

 

[Rmckoy]

Hey Brandon,
Could you point me in the direction of that thread you are referring to about acclimating for salinity over 3 days? I found the article Jay wrote on acclamation (really good) but it wasn't real detailed on going from low fish store salinity to our tanks 1.025.
(I think I may have bone-headedly lost a fish recently doing it wrong)

Thanks!

Remove the sand first …. Wash it with tap water and add fish later ?

 

[Rmckoy]

If your ammonia was "off the chart", your CUC would be dead.

And why I suggested testing error .
Either faulty test or improper procedure .
Something doesn’t make sense .
If ammonia is dosed at proper times and amounts according to the volume the ammonia should not exceed 2ppm

 

[Tired]

I'm hoping ammonia wasn't used at all, if that's ocean live rock. That stuff needs protecting.

 

[Rmckoy]

I'm hoping ammonia wasn't used at all, if that's ocean live rock. That stuff needs protecting.

And if it was . If it was true live rock it should have had the ability to process the proper dosed amount
In this case I don’t think the lfs was giving accurate advice
If they are selling true live rock . Why would they advise to add ammonia ?

 

[brandon429]

Coming up sec

 

[brandon429]

Need help! Fish are dying but inverts are fine

150g DP (first fish 9/5/22) 55g sump theiling roller mat for filter 3- AI Hydra 32's used a blend of white rock and "life" rock Sand bed is about 1-1/2 inches thick Neptune Apex (PH Temp ORP) Dr Tims One and Only had been added occasionally, especially after adding new fish Fish Status...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

fully agreed, in his articles he mentions the bag method which is confusing, it seems to advocate the method/ above there is very clear on the rise rate though.