Cyno - B/c of not enough Live Rock?

[Haggisman14]

Hey everyone, my battle with cyno is not going well. After introducing my Aquamax HOB 1.5 skimmer, things cleared up quickly, but then after about 2 weeks the cyno came back with a vengance, and I just can't kill it.

One thing that i've been wondering about is could having not enough live rock in a 29 gallon biocube be doing it? I have probably about 15lbs of live rock in the tank, aside from the skimmer, return pump, and a jaebo circulation pump, i'm not running any other filtration.

I'm doing a tank move at the end of the month, and am thinking of adding about 20-30lbs of reefsaver rock from BRS. I'm hoping that the added LR will help with my beneficial bacteria, and help keep the cyno at bay.

Let me know if this is a pipe dream, or if the added LR and beneficial bacteria could help kick this cyno for good.

Thanks!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Are you running with the lid on?
Mine always got low PH becuse of the lack of gas exchange and...

Have you cleaned out the back of the tank? the chambers in mine would get just gross.

 

[Haggisman14]

Hey Salty,

I'm running with an open top (custom Octo Lid)

I have not specifically cleaned out the back of the tank...would you just use a turkey baster to stir crap out, and then let it get sucked out into the skimmer?

 

[Haggisman14]

Just following up here to see if anyone else thinks some added LR might help out my situation..or do we all think back of the tank gunked up areas might be the culprit.

As always...thanks!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hey Salty,

I'm running with an open top (custom Octo Lid)

I have not specifically cleaned out the back of the tank...would you just use a turkey baster to stir crap out, and then let it get sucked out into the skimmer?

Notifications are all that appearantly. Lol.

When I did water changes , I blew the turkey baster in the back and siphoned it all out. The first time I did it I had to add water and do it again.

There’s so many reasons we get cyano , it hard to say what causing it. Coral foods, co2 , new tank becuse of new bio filter.

If you have an FTS , I can compare it to the rock in my tank. I don’t really have all that much. But it’s pretty old.

 

[Haggisman14]

Thanks Salty! I appreciate the info. I'll take a picture tonight and post it. I've been turkey basting my rocks where my corals are so nothing attaches, but that dang red matt grows back so quick.

I'll definitely start doing the turkey basting in the back during my water changes to get it out of there, don't know why, but I had never thought of that before, but I did look last night, and it is nasty back in there!

 

[brandon429]

guessing this sight unseen: cyano due to the sandbed, not the rock. We have a little streak going at nano-reef.com regarding cyano cures.

If you had no sandbed and still live rock with cyano, then I predict that live rock has lots of detritus to express and it would take one hour to fix your tank. lucky this is 29 gal, nanos have access to a certain unfair cheat that a 100 gallon does not have. In no way are larger tanks easier to run or keep uninvaded...

If there is a sb, let's work magic on it. One hr, tank cyano under control.

 

[Haggisman14]

Brandon...yes, there IS a sandbed!!

What is this one hour cure!!!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It’s about four For me.

 

[brandon429]

all I needed to see was the cross section in that pic


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445


am awr that sounded like a snake oil claim, and sandbed cleaning is subjective to being a superhero or not at some 1 hr challenges heh based on volume, but this should show how we beat down cyano fairly consistently. since you are so nice to consider Haggisman the challenge I w provide some very recent examples that closely match the tank above, so you dont have to read 11 pages. skim em for after pics... this shows how we can pull a live/fresh example of a tank cleaning matching most people's tanks before they run one. prep.


https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/389983-biocube-rip-cleaned/?tab=comments#comment-5643115

that tank is a smaller model, shape and sb space taken to Salty's pic.

I was so please with his documentation, before and after, thorough pics, fearless sandbed rinse per the prior thread, all came together for those after pics. Cyano cannot exist where its blasted out; but the ideal is a natural suppression agreed, a natural balance so you aren't pulling apart every weekend. give us one good thorough clean like the pics above, allow three hours possibly heh, and we think it will hold clean long enough for you to employ true working preventative steps.


we think doing preventative steps above a dirty diaper=no good.

page one of the large sand rinse thread at the top shows a fine little reef passing a drop test for sand, a true cloudless condition of nirvana. that is the standard we expect for all entrants after grad lol

 

[brandon429]

quick highlights from the big thread, pros cons, for sures and risks:

-the tendency is to underrinse the new sand, or the old sand you are preparing to be able to pass a clouding test. That is why we use tap water, for the initial rinse ( the final one is in saltwater for clear reasons )

we're not being rogue crazies using tap...endless rinse supply is why, then we flush final with saltwater, and the sand passes a drop test, which sets the compliance staging for all the stuff you w pile back on top of it again.

nothing we do is antibacterial, that's 11 pages and no losses and the deepest possible sandbed accessing in reefing. The outcome is for sure, a detritus free tank. the rocks, the sand, its all covered there in the read in harsh detail.

the risks:

last page shows a couple of noncompliant tanks, and we trace out how changes they wanted to implement in the process allowed for detritus to remain, clouding, and they got some more cyano


consider the tank example above that has no cyano on day 12, that's because he can pass a drop test.


*though there's biological possibility for any invader to just come back, you can see the risk in our thread is possibly growback, but not tank loss if the rocks are demonstrably cleaned and the sandbed can pass a clouding test. even if our method fails, and it doesn't if you'll actually rinse man (ha) then the worst thing you're left with is the same issue you have now, only a clean sandbed that for sure wont at least fuel a green hair algae outbreak after chemi clean kills off your cyano.

buried in the example thread is another tank from nano-reef.com who read the thread, took out a two year sandbed and rinsed it pehaps 50%, then put the sandbed back with so much detritus welled up I could not see actual sand in the after pics, and the tank died. we feel no explanation or autopsy was required for that loss, merely the thread read. rinse with deliberation, or die...pretty simple!

I do not cherry pick entrants, anyone who tries this is invited to post the journey

there's 11 pages of win and three examples of not win for clear reasons...worth considering the details. they all left in detritus. the whole entire years long thread is simply predicting where detritus exists, and then alleviating it, so very incredibly simple.
B

please document your work if you do, we'll add it.

 

[Haggisman14]

after a lot of thinking, I think the root cause of my cyno outbreaks is due to my sandbed. Not big enough to be considered a deep sandbed, but enough for extra crap to gather in it. I think over the next week weeks, I'm going to work on siphoning out the sand as I do my water changes. That's really the only think I could account for that keeps my cyno coming back again and again and again. I stay on top of my weekly water changes. I have about a 8 hour photo period, I do NOT overfeed, I have a skimmer running 24/7.

My water is clear, but I'm having some outbreaks of cyno, as well as hair algae.

I'm really getting sick and tired of having to siphon the cyno out.

I know this is probably a stupid question, but could a salt lead to more outbreaks? My LFS uses AquaForest salt, and I'm thinking of switching to either Red Sea blue bucket, or IO. That way I"ll only be purchasing water from the LFS, and mixing my own batches. I know that probably has NOTHING to do with it but figured I'd put it out there.

 

[brandon429]

I must relay something, a nifty little idea we are doing in a friends tank in pm, exact same situation as yours

we want to test model, if possible, how a big sandbed cleanup might do for the overall tank. the large sand rinse thread already shows how to replace the entire bed instantly if one desires, but the real risk is growback after the hard work. skip cycling/not a problem can do in sleep.

but the regrowth, and whether or not it takes more than one cleaning (harder on larger tanks yes) is the real trick to pre model

so why not this approach:

take your sand and siphon out a good grip of it, along with the invader specifically, into a test bucket. about three handfuls im guessing, muck and sand n water n mud mixed.

then go to the sink and flush 100% of it out leaving only sand, this is the rinse model. single pass, destruction rinse test. ive done like 20 of them/documented in the sand rinse thread alone with 3o others

but these clean tap water blasted gains go in a test jar for your windowsill

put in totally new saltwater not of your tank, and those rinsed grains that used to be part of a dredge mud sample

and keep it topped off well, and salinity set w topoffs for about a week, lets see what grows back after the rinse mode


IF it sustains clean from the rinse, proving dislodging and no vectoring after tap, then change its water for 100% your tank water and nothing else

wait another week, see if that vectors anything

add a tiny chunk of live rock you've rinsed off

with this incremental setup we're test modeling every aspect of locus and procedure vs the big job
b

of course its better to just rip clean the whole thing by dinner tonite...but for big tankers, a rip clean is a days-long job possibly. they'd like a test model of invader response to raw physical battle.

 

[Haggisman14]

Hey Brandon,

I appreciate all the details, but I"ve got to be honest, I just don't have the time to do all this. Plus I think if I started washing out the sand in the tub of sink...I'd be sleeping in your house for the foreseeable future!

I might end up leaving just a really think layer of sand on the bottom just to cover the glass a bit, but not enough for detritus to gather and wreak havok.

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

Well at the very least, we've collected another testimony for the thread 'is detritus as bad as it's made out to be?'

I kept telling them people other than pico reefers are getting hassled by the muck and it's hangers on