Damsels in Reef tank

[Blitzburggirl]

I currently have a 29 gallon biocube with a high fin goby and a yasha goby/pistol, and biota mandarin. The gobies have paired (outside chance and I got lucky!) and live in their burrows with the shrimp. The high fin is a pretty "brave" and out and about but the yasha is a chicken. (Granted they've only been in the tank 2 months and 2/3 weeks respectively. The mandy just swims and swims. I have a good selection of frags and rockwork.

I'd like a couple open water swimmers. I don't want clowns.. because then I'll be tempted to get an anemone (s gig or haddoni) and then I'll either have to rehome existing fish, or I'll keep them and be resentful, so I'm going to not get clowns and set those cogs in motion.

Anyway. I have been drawn to damsels this go round. I am thinking either one Starcki or Tracey's... but I also thought maybe one of each so hopefully they can bug each other and ignore my other fish. I know it will be a nightmare to add a second if I don't add them at the same time. The Tracey's are small and ship small it seems, the Starcki gets big and ships big it seems. Maybe two or three Tracey's and forget the Starcki? But the tank is small and I don't want a royal rumble.

I'm an experienced reefer (goes back to the undergravel filter days) and have never had damsels before because I was terrified of having to yank them from much bigger tanks, or having clowns in smaller tanks and not wanting WW3. This one is a clean slate, and it just seems like this would be the time to do it. I've read a ton (someone said their Starcki's lost their vibrant color!?) I do frequent water changes due to frequent feeding (so I'm not overly concerned about bioload.. besides, I'd rather have the extra mouths to feed and enjoy.)

Edited to add: I'm seriously considering rehoming the biota mandarin. I paid alot for it because it was supposed to eat prepared foods. I *thought* I saw it eat prepared cyclops... I am doubting myself on that one now. I'm spending a fortune on pods and I don't like the mandy enough to justify it.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Of the 3 you listed in the OP, I would stick with azures. Had Allen's once, they arent as friendly as azures and were prolific diggers. Hated them.

The CB azures I got came in teeny tiny and far less robust than wild caught counterparts. If you get cb allow extra time in qt forthem to grow up a bit.

 

[Lenett]

Will my blue damsel be less aggressive if he has a mate? So far he hangs with my tomato clowns and sailfin blenny, but he trolls for and has killed most of my green chromis. Those left don't shole, but just hide in the rock. Tails nipped off and sometimes blind. My tank is 175 g and much rock. Would have to drain to get damsel out. He is a devil!
Any ideas?

 

[Backreefing]

A blue devil demsel is well known for aggression, and it gets worse as she matures and gets bigger . If she is all blue it’s a girl . The males have orange in the tail . Together a mated pair will be rediculess .
catching her will be BS trust me lol. Drain the aquarium and pick her up and rehome her in a LFS . The springer demsel is a way better replacement. Looks almost the same , true blue , eats pests . Once the devil is gone get some Talbots, springers , cromis, kupangs they will be great . Good luck

 

[Backreefing]

I’m wondering something about demsels. With regards to flat worms. I read on this forum that demsels eat flat worms. Not just the springer demsel. But all of them do ? Especially the ones from the Chrysiptera family.
so does anyone have Chrysiptera demsels and flat worms? Or have they eaten them up ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

2 damsels =

 

[Backreefing]

I have 16-20 of them . They are fine , a little chase here or there no chewed up fins .
now dominos, yellows , blue devils , 3 or 4 stripes. They are terrible

 

[ca1ore]

I’m wondering something about demsels. With regards to flat worms. I read on this forum that demsels eat flat worms. Not just the springer demsel. But all of them do ? Especially the ones from the Chrysiptera family.
so does anyone have Chrysiptera demsels and flat worms? Or have they eaten them up ?

None of my damsels have ever eaten flat worms. Halochoeres wrasse is a much better choice if you’ve an outbreak.

 

[Backreefing]

Thx for the reply. 1 nay to that myth . Could you list which demsels you have?

 

[nereefpat]

Luckily, I've never dealt with flatworms.
I do love Chysiptera damsels ...But dominos and 3/4 striped damsels, look out.

I agree about Halichoeres wrasses and pests. They patrol all day. Every tank should have one of those anyway, as long as you have sand...So frag tanks aren't always the best.

 

[ca1ore]

Thx for the reply. 1 nay to that myth . Could you list which demsels you have?

List of damsels/demoiselle - one starki, three rolland, five talbot, six azure and approximetely 35-40 yellow tails. Those are all chrysiptera. Also have a pair of pomacentrus, ambon specifically.

 

[Backreefing]

Man those starki must be pretty, they almost pass for a small angel . How are the rolands ? Any yellow on the heads?

 

[ca1ore]

Starki is nice but $$ so I just have one. Rolland may actually be my favorites. Mine have a quite noticeable yellow face and head. For a while it looked like two might pair off ..... no signs of any egg laying though.

 

[Zionas]

Rolland’s seem a little rare, but temperament wise heard they’re on par with Azure, Talbot’s.

Yeah agree Starckis are very beautiful. Replacement for C. Resplendens, ahh good old days when there was still collection at Ascension.

 

[Lenett]

2 damsels =

So funny!

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Pretty much what @mattzang noted. The Chrysiptera damsels are typically more peaceful. It does not mean that it will be all golden bombs of light and love but if you have a properly sized aquarium, with enough rocks, caves, nooks, and crannies for their home and retreat then they are the ones to go for. @ca1ore has around 50 to 60 in his 450 gallon tank with good success. Again, the only way I would recommend is if you have the space for them and a pretty mature and/or healthy coral population.

I've had a mix of 3 azures and 3 talbots which got a long fine for 3 years. Then lost a couple to a bacteria bloom or anemone / snail spawn that caused issues. Of the two remaining azures that was a mated pair. I lost another and down to the single today. I would introduce more but I since upgraded to a 210 gallon and while I have the rocks to support them the coral isn't mature enough in my opinion. When I see damsels I see a need for the whole package much like I see when I'm scuba diving over a reef. I'm just not there yet.

Damsels are really great fish though that offer a splash of color, speed, and constant activity. You just have to buy the right fish for your aquarium.

How would they do in a heavily cave-scaped, semi-aggressive FOWLR? I’m contemplating a couple damsels as well for a 75g, but it will have little to no coral, as I intend to stock fish that might nip. Does established coral effect their aggression that significantly, or is it more for any additional hiding places? Like the OP, I’ve heard horror stories….

 

[captivereef]

My Azure damsel has been a model.citizwn in my 80, one of my forst fish as well. He bothers no one, id like a small school of them if I had the room

 

[vetteguy53081]

How would they do in a heavily cave-scaped, semi-aggressive FOWLR? I’m contemplating a couple damsels as well for a 75g, but it will have little to no coral, as I intend to stock fish that might nip. Does established coral effect their aggression that significantly, or is it more for any additional hiding places? Like the OP, I’ve heard horror stories….

They go both ways- some good and some demons
Problem is if you end up with demons, they can be nearly impossible to catch often leading to tearing the tank apart

 

[Wandering Albatross]

They go both ways- some good and some demons
Problem is if you end up with demons, they can be nearly impossible to catch often leading to tearing the tank apart

Toss up, gotcha.

Do you know of anything that can encourage them to play nice other than space? How much space do they typically defend in a suitably sized tank, as one of the last fish? Would having other dominant fish help distribute aggression or otherwise dissuade them from becoming terrors? Are there any fish in particular that seem to get harassed by them the most, other than other damsels?

 

[areefer01]

Toss up, gotcha.

Do you know of anything that can encourage them to play nice other than space? How much space do they typically defend in a suitably sized tank, as one of the last fish? Would having other dominant fish help distribute aggression or otherwise dissuade them from becoming terrors? Are there any fish in particular that seem to get harassed by them the most, other than other damsels?

It really comes to your stock list, what is your acceptable risk, and mitigation plan should something not work out.

Part of the battle is understanding that all of our systems are different so experiences may not be the same for you. For example @ca1ore had well over 60 damsels in his 400+ gallon aquarium without issues. I currently have 11 Lyretail Damsels in my 210 without issues. I've also kept other groups such as Azures, Sapphires, Surge, and Talbots. All with reasonable experiences except for the 7 Sapphires. Unfortunately, the males get super protective on their nests which made it very difficult to introduce new fish. Had they been the last group added it may have worked out better.

One reason why this works for me is because I also keep Anthias - Pink Squares, and the dominate transitioning male keeps the damsels in check. I see similar behavior when I go scuba diving. It also helps that my display is close to 10 years of maturity so very large Acropora colonies that provide adequate space for spawning, retreating, sleeping, and areas to break up the chase.

Point is, I guess, is that damsels are fine once you create a proper environment. In my experience. So much in fact that my next display will probably have 50 or so mixed between the Lyretails and Rollands.

They are not for everyone though - I understand that.