"dark Hobby" documentary

[Tuffyyyyy]

But what are the other sides? I can't think of one besides "I want this fish because it looks pretty."

This doesn't look like it's even pointing to fish as a global warming/killing the reefs thing, but rather that the hobby as it is now just picks fish out of the ocean to kill them with no real purpose. We're trying to say we keep them fat and happy in our homes for a long time, but there's a reason that people on here who have had their fish the 15-20 years they're capable of living are celebrities on this forum.

 

[JCM]

But what are the other sides? I can't think of one besides "I want this fish because it looks pretty."

This doesn't look like it's even pointing to fish as a global warming/killing the reefs thing, but rather that the hobby as it is now just picks fish out of the ocean to kill them with no real purpose. We're trying to say we keep them fat and happy in our homes for a long time, but there's a reason that people on here who have had their fish the 15-20 years they're capable of living are celebrities on this forum.

Even if we do keep them fat and happy, for every fish you see in the LFS, 8 or 9 died before getting there. It obviously doesn't stop me from being in the hobby but we shouldn't be in denial about that.

 

[D E N I N O]

You don't need two sides to be shown to be a documentary... I've seen a lot of WW2 documentaries which didn't contain the thoughts of Hitler.

It's not very encouraging for the future of the hobby to see people with their eyes closed to the problems we all cause. How do we move forward and improve the way we do things if we can't even face the issue head on?

Plucking fish out of the ocean to fly them half way across the world to sit in our living rooms in tiny glass boxes is cruel. We're all guilty of it, I'll continue to do it with some species too... But let's just be honest about what we do, let's not live in delusion.

 

[fish farmer]

But what are the other sides? I can't think of one besides "I want this fish because it looks pretty."

This doesn't look like it's even pointing to fish as a global warming/killing the reefs thing, but rather that the hobby as it is now just picks fish out of the ocean to kill them with no real purpose. We're trying to say we keep them fat and happy in our homes for a long time, but there's a reason that people on here who have had their fish the 15-20 years they're capable of living are celebrities on this forum.

You do bring up a good point about "the other side". Jobs creation? Education in keeping corals? What is the real value of having a reef tank vs. a freshwater tank vs. just having a dog vs. communing with nature another way and does that justify the dark side of the hobby?

 

[tautog83]

I'd like to see a documentary on the progress of reef replanting operations that are going on around the world. I see that they are happening - but - there is not much footage about how well it is really working.

They had a NOVA on the other day about people around the world trying to replant reefs with heat resistant corals and even morphed corals that in the lab would grow under higher temperatures. They called it assisted evolution. Anyways the episode was called "reef rescue " and It was pretty interesting .I believe it's available online now.

As far as the actual topic being discussed, theres always going to be people to view the extremes . Literally one trawler or huge commercial boat wipes out more fish in one swipe than the aquarium industry . I'm sure they wrote their documentary while eating a spicy tuna sushi roll

Dont get wrong we should be moving into all aquacultured and at the very least maricultured only . Instead of buying $300 an inch frags we should trade within the hobby and encourage coral restoration , and fish breeding projects

 

[T-J]

You don't need two sides to be shown to be a documentary... I've seen a lot of WW2 documentaries which didn't contain the thoughts of Hitler.

And here we go...someone finally brought up Hitler.

Well, funny enough, plenty of WW2 documentaries DO bring up his thoughts, why he did what he did and how he came to power and why people followed him. You NEED to know these things so we don't repeat those mistakes again.
But, to stay on topic here...

What you have here is a film that is done with a purpose. They brought in only people that would agree with the filmmaker that hobbyists are killing the reefs/fish. I'm not blind to the fact that we are taking things out of the ocean, nor am I blind to how some of these methods are extremely cruel (cyanide). I don't think anyone in this hobby is blind to that.

But what about those of us that try to knowingly only purchase aquacultured livestock or tank raised fish? Did the film look to see if ocean harvesting has decreased due to aquaculture or maricultured corals? Did it look to the hobby for solutions? How about if harvesting fish/coral was illegal around the world? Would it make any impact, or is it so minute in comparison to climate issues, fishing or waste dumping that there would be no noticeable difference?

 

[jorwill]

I’d have to argue we as hobbyists have also added a lot of knowledge in reefs in general. More so then what I’d say marine biologists have lately. I mean look at that kid that figured out lion fish can live almost in freshwater. Look at what finding that out can hopefully help us prevent.

 

[Stephen]

These sort of films are seldom told from more than one view point. Regardless, I'll watch it when it comes out if for nothing less than to hear the films side of things.

 

[JCM]

And here we go...someone finally brought up Hitler.

Well, funny enough, plenty of WW2 documentaries DO bring up his thoughts, why he did what he did and how he came to power and why people followed him. You NEED to know these things so we don't repeat those mistakes again.
But, to stay on topic here...

What you have here is a film that is done with a purpose. They brought in only people that would agree with the filmmaker that hobbyists are killing the reefs/fish. I'm not blind to the fact that we are taking things out of the ocean, nor am I blind to how some of these methods are extremely cruel (cyanide). I don't think anyone in this hobby is blind to that.

But what about those of us that try to knowingly only purchase aquacultured livestock or tank raised fish? Did the film look to see if ocean harvesting has decreased due to aquaculture or maricultured corals? Did it look to the hobby for solutions? How about if harvesting fish/coral was illegal around the world? Would it make any impact, or is it so minute in comparison to climate issues, fishing or waste dumping that there would be no noticeable difference?

Hopefully everyone acknowledges that it is minute in comparison to those other issues. Anyone who says otherwise is ill informed or deceitful.

 

[ApoIsland]

Wow had not seen. I did check out the cast and crew page and one name was familiar:

Snorkel Bob - sort of a PETA style conservationist (and I do not mean that as a compliment) who has been a very effective PR man for the Hawaiian fishery closure

Everything associated with that Bob clown is a propaganda joke. Hypocrite at it's finest as he makes a living selling equip to tourists so they can go trample the reefs. Someone should do another documentary following his customers around counting how many corals they demolish.

 

[reefinatl]

I really hate this kind of argument. Are commercial fishing, climate change, and pollution the biggest contributing factors to the ecological collapse of the reefs? Yes. Does the aquarium industry also contribute to it? Also yes. It’s like the argument with climate change, ‘well these other countries produce far more CO2, so why should we have to lower our CO2 if they aren’t?’. Acting like focusing on a smaller contributing factor to a problem (and it’s literally just a documentary), when the root causes of said problem receive exponentially more attention, money, and political action, is somehow irresponsible or a waste of time is just preposterous.

You cannot be in this hobby without recognizing the inherently selfish and destructive nature of it. I think we all do what we can to mitigate the impact our hobby has on the natural world, but even in 2021 it’s still incredibly hard to have a 100% aquacultured reef tank. And even if it is 100% aquacultured, you’re still participating in and supporting the industry, the machine, that is responsible for harming coral reefs.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t keep reef tanks because of the ethical implications, but I don’t think we can just absolve ourself of any responsibility for the very real impact our hobby has on coral reefs. I think we only tell ourselves these sort of rationalizations to absolve ourselves of any guilt or responsibility. And I’m not saying we should feel guilty, but I do think that we need recognize the impact our hobby has and be honest about it.

100% aquaculture is easy except for fish stocking. I don't think I own a single wild caught coral except a trachy. Fish ain't that bad. 2 clowns CB by local guy, 3 ora azure damsel, 2 ora YWG, 1 biota YT, only WC is a tomini and coris wrasse.

The chop shop stuff needs to stop. I wouldn't really be to upset to see a halt to all stony coral harvesting from the wild at this point. I know I'll never knowingly purchase wild harvested corals at this point. Even fish if there is a CB available of it or similar I'll go that route.

 

[rhines]

new password is darkhobby2021 in case anyone wants to actually watch this

where were you able to find the full documentary

 

[amazongb]

where were you able to find the full documentary

Vimeo here. https://vimeo.com/showcase/darkhobby2020

Password is darkhobby2021

 

[amazongb]

Since this documentary not only touches on the collection of fish and coral, but attacks the aquarium hobby in general, what we need is a documentary about keeping reef tanks that could include exceptional reef keepers, such as Sanjay Joshi, Mike Paletta, Richard Ross, Greg Hiller (and many more) to explain what exactly it is reef keepers do and aspire to do, instead of painting us ignoramus creature killers.

 

[Staghorn]

There’s no doubt that this hobby does kill allot of animals from a dwindling ecosystem, there is pressure from fishing, ocean acidification, temperature change, hell in some places in the world they are still collecting stony corals for lime. Just because the aquarium trade may be a smaller portion of the total doesn’t mean it’s better. As humans we always find a way to justify the damage we do, but we’re still doing the damage. Imagine if all of us were to dedicate the amount of time and money we pump into our tanks and instead do something about what’s happening to the reefs. As a whole we could make a difference. We can tell ourselves whatever we want that makes us feel better but we are as guilty as any of the other industries. I am guilty of supporting the onslaught, but like everyone else I try not to think about it so I can enjoy my aquarium. At the rate things are going the ocean will be very different 20-30-50 years from now. In the mean time try to support aquaculture.

 

[reefpaddy]

I've already seen it, another forum had a link here which had early access but it doesn't seem to be working right now.

To be honest they made good points in large parts of the film. Without doubt some of it was PETA nonsense, but most of it seemed reasonable and based in truth.

You either have to be lying to yourself or totally uninformed to think this is a morally fine hobby. We do take animals out of the ocean to put them in small glass boxes for our enjoyment at the end of the day. For every fish that makes it to a LFS, many don't. Poor people are collecting with with Cyanide every day for pennies so vendors can sell these fish for hundreds in some cases.

People who say things like "I'm saving the ocean with my reef tank" are retarded...

If you're going to be in the hobby just accept it's a selfish hobby. You value your enjoyment of these animals over the lives of these animals. It is what it is...

After watching it I'm focusing on tank bred fish where I can but I'm also researching these fish in the wild. I'll never buy a butterfly fish after watching this film. They mate for life, pulling them out and separating them seems cruel.

But I've got no issue with gobies and blenny's from the wild, 70% of them are eaten every week in the wild. I'm confident that they have a longer/better life in my tank. They are also tiny fish.

It's worth watching, it's a fair attack on our hobby. We all know that this isn't good, we all agree that tank bred fish and coral propagation is the future. If this film makes it happen a bit faster then it's good.

darkhobby2021 Gets you access to the private screening

 

[JediCruz]

Sustainably acquiring fish for aqua culture by responsible parties should be the goal, in my opinion. Preventing the home reefers from getting these beautiful creatures and calling them the cause of the problem is probably not the right way to go about it. IMO, it’s the home reefers that are helping with the knowledge about how to keep these animals alive. Though I don’t think (it’s been a while since I watched it) Chasing Coral on Netflix directly thanked the home reefers for some of the knowledge they acquired but, I think, they indirectly acknowledged that we have helped in at least a small way (correct me if I’m wrong). I think the more reef aquarists there are enjoying the beauty of this type of nature at home, the more people there are to fight for maintaining these beauties in nature as well as at home. This “documentary” I feel would point the finger in the wrong direction. But, we are to blame if we choose to buy a wild caught specimen when an aqua cultured one is available. The push to more aqcuaculturing should be the goal which will require taking some wild caught specimens to start the culture process. Sustainability. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Jeffcb]

What ever.... Nothing new.

 

[MaxTremors]

If you're trying to educate people, be fair about it. Present the facts...ALL the facts, not just the facts that support your argument. Then let the person decide for themselves.
Otherwise, it's just propaganda.

I feel like the collective understanding of what journalism, editorial content, documentaries, PSAs, and propaganda, etc. are, and the differences between them, has been so thoroughly warped and the misunderstandings (intentional or otherwise) of the different ethical considerations of each have been rhetorically weaponized into strawman arguments that attack the ethics or even the sincerity of a piece instead of contending with the actual arguments being made. It’s what allowed completely nonsensical and reality challenged ideas like ‘fake news’ to proliferate. Part of the issue is that a lot of people just aren’t as media savvy as they think they are, but ironically these ‘tell both sides’ and ‘fake news’ ideas are actual propaganda.

I don’t know where you got the idea that a Documentary (especially one that is very clearly taking a side) is ethically obligated to give both sides of an argument equal time or consideration. Documentaries such as this should essentially abide by, and be judged by the rules and ethics of debate. This is a documentary that is about the impact our hobby has on reefs and is taking the stance that it is bad or unethical. Would you expect a documentary about aquaculturing coral to go into great depth and give equal time to the argument that aquaculturing is bad?

And for the record, I haven’t seen the documentary, it may very well be a poorly made hit piece, but that won’t be because it didn’t give the other side of the argument equal time and consideration, it will be because it’s poorly structured, or is rife with inconsistencies/inaccuracies/logical fallacies/etc., or just isn’t engaging.

You do bring up a good point about "the other side". Jobs creation? Education in keeping corals? What is the real value of having a reef tank vs. a freshwater tank vs. just having a dog vs. communing with nature another way and does that justify the dark side of the hobby?

Ultimately there really isn’t any justification. There’s no rationalizing it, it’s an unethical and selfish hobby. That’s just something you have to be able to accept. No amount of jobs or education changes that.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

I feel like the collective understanding of what journalism, editorial content, documentaries, PSAs, and propaganda, etc. are, and the differences between them, has been so thoroughly warped and the misunderstandings (intentional or otherwise) of the different ethical considerations of each have been rhetorically weaponized into strawman arguments that attack the ethics or even the sincerity of a piece instead of contending with the actual arguments being made. It’s what allowed completely nonsensical and reality challenged ideas like ‘fake news’ to proliferate. Part of the issue is that a lot of people just aren’t as media savvy as they think they are, but ironically these ‘tell both sides’ and ‘fake news’ ideas are actual propaganda.

I don’t know where you got the idea that a Documentary (especially one that is very clearly taking a side) is ethically obligated to give both sides of an argument equal time or consideration. Documentaries such as this should essentially abide by, and be judged by the rules and ethics of debate. This is a documentary that is about the impact our hobby has on reefs and is taking the stance that it is bad or unethical. Would you expect a documentary about aquaculturing coral to go into great depth and give equal time to the argument that aquaculturing is bad?

And for the record, I haven’t seen the documentary, it may very well be a poorly made hit piece, but that won’t be because it didn’t give the other side of the argument equal time and consideration, it will be because it’s poorly structured, or is rife with inconsistencies/inaccuracies/logical fallacies/etc., or just isn’t engaging.

Ultimately there really isn’t any justification. There’s no rationalizing it, it’s an unethical and selfish hobby. That’s just something you have to be able to accept. No amount of jobs or education changes that.

You’re awesome and deserve more than just a ”like.”