Day over flow for 45g w/ 20L sump

jeff5347 · Jul 2, 2013

Afternoon guys, OK so i got some good ideas on skimmers and rodi systems from Totion and buckeye field supply. Thanks to others that have responded as well. This is what im working on now is setting up an overflow. Tank is 45g w/ a 20 l sump. I have not designed the sump yet just have the tank. I have watched a bunch of videos on overflows and wondering if this one looks reasonable to work with my system. My thoughts are going w a sca 302 skimmer and a mag 7 or quite one 4000 return pump. This is the design i was going for. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yyZN9L04KB8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=yyZN9L04KB8. Does this look like something that will work with what products im looking to use and i was think using 3/4 inch pipe. Where it T's off to one enlarge the diameter to 1.5 inches. I would then plumb a flex tubing to a PVC t. One line back to the tank and the second PVC with a ball valve back to the skimmer compartment to fine tune the return flow. Any opinions or changes to the sump, overflow design, pipe diameter, ect? Thanks all in advance.

Jeff

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AZDesertRat · Jul 2, 2013

Overflows can be tricky to DIY properly and are such an important piece of equipment I wouldn't mess with constructing one. You can buy an Eshopps HOB overflow that is very compact and extremely reliable for not much $$ and have no worries about floods.

For the return pump, do not return flow to the sump. This is harder on the pump, uses more power, is louder and creates more heat than simply placing a ball valve in the discharge line of the pump and throttling the flow down in that way. Submersible centrifugal pumps only draw the power required for the work at hand so adding head, cutting flow in the process, means the pump is working less and is more efficient. When you return unused water to the sump you have already pumped it so the punmp works harder, draws the power required to pump that water and creates the heat for those watts consumed then you just dump it back where it started from.

I can't stress enough how much I would like to see you use a different return pump than the Quiet One. I have literally had two Quiet Ones go up in flames, sparks, electrifying the tank, smoke and all. They are horrible pumps, run extremely hot, draw more power than better comparable pumps, and worts of all have lots of documented trouble retstarting after a power outage or feeding time. I would not wish one on my worst enemy and certainly not a fellow reef hobbyist. My display dropped 2 degrees after replacing the 4000 with an Ocean Runner 3500 and the power on the Kill A Watt meter dropped 15 watts from 68 measured watts to 53 measured watts with no other changes. Plus I never had to disassemble the pump anymore to spin the impeller with my finger until it started again. Absolute junk in my experience. One was a fluke but two sealed it for me. Mag pumps are a little more reliable but are very loud, draw higher than normal power and run hot, they do restart though.
Look into better pumps like Eheim, Ocean Runner , Octopus, WaterBlaster, Sicce and Tunze. All are more efficient, handled head well, draw less power, are quieter and create less heat. None are as inexpensive but they will last and last.

You really do not need a return pump that large anyway, the recommended return flow is 3 to 5x your display volume after headloss and the 4000 is a 900+ GPH pump at 0' head and still quite a lot of flow at the normal 4-5 feet of head. Your sump will be whistling like a jet with that velocity travelling through it and you will have massive microbubbles even with baffles since you will have little detention time for them to dissipate.
Even 5x your display volume is around 250 GPH which is where I would suggest you be, 250-300 maximum and make up the rest with powerheads which are much more efficient.

A 1" overflow is more than sufficient, I use a 1" on my 100G with a Water Blaster HY-5000 pump wide open and have no problems. The return plumbing can be 3/4" or even 1/2" at 300 GPH with no issues. Keep the fittings, bends and valves to a minimum to reduce headlosses and on the overflow keep it as straight as possible with no sharp bends, I actually preter reinforced vinyl tubing for my overflows with gradual sweeps for direction changes and minimal barbed nipples for attaching. I usually oversize the vinyl tubing one size, as in 1.25" instead of 1" to account for the smaller inside diameter of the barbed nipples and fittings to reduce restrictions.

jeff5347 · Jul 2, 2013

AZ, ok so this is what I was looking for. Info to save me the trouble of killing myself with products I shouldn't have bought. For the first part you stated on getting rid of the 4000 and going with a ocean runner or the sort that would be great to not use a lot of power and to keep the temps down. Are you using the ocean runner or the hy5000 on your 100g. mine being a 45g w/ a 20 sump i need 5x so that is 300gph. Mine is about 4.5 ft from sump to DT. I would just need to find a pump that at 4.5 ft or so it pushes 300gph, correct. Also on the overflow. If i decide to DIY it the dual is over kill? Would doing something more like this in 3/4 or 1" be all that the system needs. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...attachmentid=93547&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1195273595

jeff5347 · Jul 2, 2013

Also to not risk over flow w the day over flow or any for that matter i can add this. It is an auto shut off switch that can be put in line w the RP. I would fab up a bracket to hold this switch over the rear of the tank out of the water, but low enough so if the siphon OF stops, water rises, then pushes the float up to shut of the pump. As long as the float is making a contact to keep the pump off... No over flow

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jeff5347 · Jul 2, 2013

Um the link would be useful. Haha. I've seen this used on an ATO so I've seen it works. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=270997981536

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shovelrider · Jul 3, 2013

Just drill the tank. Buy or build an internal box, use 1'' pipe, mag7 for return pump, and 3/4'' return tubing going over the tank rim into the tank.
I use this setup and I have a 45g tall with 10g sump.

DIY internal overflow in 1/4'' glass... cost about $22 to get glass already cut to size from glass shop.

DIY 10g sump for oversized skimmer and maximum return side water volume... Single baffle in the center of the tank.

This system is in my living room behind my couch. It is silent except for the fans in the canopy and the light hum from the mag7 and skimmer.

totion · Jul 3, 2013

I agree with not returning water from the pump to the sump. I don't agree on the mag pumps being loud. I layer down a layer of silicone for my mag 5 to sit on and it is quiet. The only thing I hear on my tank is the overflow box. Skimmer and return are not louder than it. I used an eshopps pf300 overflow.

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AZDesertRat · Jul 3, 2013

I believe in keeping the overflow as clan and simple as possible. Less to go wrong and maintain and much quieter. All the bends and contortions on the one you pictured scare me plus i'm not exactly sure what goes where.

Look at the Eshopps HOB overflows, they are very clean looking and consist of an adjustable internal box, a smooth U tube and an external box. No bends, twists, elbows etc and just about impossible to fail once set right.

As shovelrider mentioned, drilling the tank or buying a reef ready system would always be my first choice but that is not always possible. Internal drilled overflows are definitely the best and most reliable since they are a simple siphon with no lifts or up and overs to trap air bubbles and lose prime.