Dead mimic tang and othe fish breathing rapidly

JAC-

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Apologies friends, this is going to be a lot of info thrown at you, the story’s at the bottom. I have a dead mimic tang, fish scratching, and rapid breathing.

Aquarium type reef, barely any coral yet.
total system volume 128 gallons
Filtration - sump with socks, RS 300 skimmer thats been off last two days, 140 lbs of dry live rock cycled.
2 readsea reef 90’s + 4 48” t5’s
first fish added ~ 3 months ago.

Temperature 80 f
PH 8.2
Salinity 1.025
Ammonia 0 - 0.2
Nitrite 0 - 0.05
Nitrate 5 - 10
Phosphate 0.4
KH 10.5 DKH

Stock list,
Powder blue tang
mimic tang - now deceased
2 clownfish
1 green chroma
longnose butterfly
6 line wrasse
firefish
4 engineer gobies

cleaner shrimp
2 fighting conchs
serpent star
4 turbo snails
lost of hermits, cerith snails, asteraea snails,

Feeding - SA hatchery pellets, freeze dried miss and brine shrimp, smoked in selcon and Lipo-garlic (alternating), frozen brine and mysis shrimp, bloodworms, and nori.

Problem,

All inverts and pods are looking and acting fine.

I haven’t quarantined any of the fish. I’m setting up a quarantine tank ASAP and before I get anymore fish.

From the get go the powder blue has been aggressive to the mimic tang, but no injuries noticed.

A week ago I added the 4 engineer gobies, didn’t see any noticeable signs of illness.

I also added a carbon reactor with matrix carbon, ran 3 gallons of DI water through it to rinse the carbon. Mimic tang got HLLE two days after adding reactor and it progressed rapidly. I removed the carbon at first sight and filled the reactor with filter floss to try and get any carbon fines that may have escaped into the water and did a 30 % water change.

HLLE got worse and was soon followed by rapid breathing. (3-6 gill beats per second)

Powder blue showed no signs of HLLE but started breathing rapidly.

I figured I mush have gotten flukes from the engineer gobies and did the smart thing and started treating with ruby reef rally pro without checking first. (that’s why the skimmer has been off for two days.)

Two days later, my mimic tang was found dead. I inspected the body including gills, didn’t notice anything and placed he body in a black bucket of fresh water. After 20 minutes nothing but some of the slime cote came off or appeared on the body.

The powder blue is still breathing heavy and scratching, I also see the engineer gobies occasionally scratching.

Any ideas friends?

Should I turn my skimmer back on and work to get the rally pro out of the system?

Pictures to follow.
 
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JAC-

JAC-

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Mimic tang after passing
IMG_20210425_160621_4.jpg
IMG_20210425_160126.jpg
IMG_20210425_160740.jpg
 
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vetteguy53081

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Seems like it could be a gill infection or velvet affecting the gills, not to mention Quite a few fish and addition of reactor all so suddenly. Although Rally is mild, it will lower oxygen a little and should not be used with carbon for best results.
Also, although the KH was in range, it is approaching the higher side and high alkalinity can turn ammonia more toxic.
Your ammonia was stated at zero. Are you using API test kits by chance?
So back to velvet-
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".
 
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JAC-

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For some more information.

As an EE, I don't believe in the whole stray voltage thing but I checked that too and read 6 VAC. I'd be willing to any kind of ritual dance too if someone can instruct me.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Apologies friends, this is going to be a lot of info thrown at you, the story’s at the bottom. I have a dead mimic tang, fish scratching, and rapid breathing.

Aquarium type reef, barely any coral yet.
total system volume 128 gallons
Filtration - sump with socks, RS 300 skimmer thats been off last two days, 140 lbs of dry live rock cycled.
2 readsea reef 90’s + 4 48” t5’s
first fish added ~ 3 months ago.

Temperature 80 f
PH 8.2
Salinity 1.025
Ammonia 0 - 0.2
Nitrite 0 - 0.05
Nitrate 5 - 10
Phosphate 0.4
KH 10.5 DKH

Stock list,
Powder blue tang
mimic tang - now deceased
2 clownfish
1 green chroma
longnose butterfly
6 line wrasse
firefish
4 engineer gobies

cleaner shrimp
2 fighting conchs
serpent star
4 turbo snails
lost of hermits, cerith snails, asteraea snails,

Feeding - SA hatchery pellets, freeze dried miss and brine shrimp, smoked in selcon and Lipo-garlic (alternating), frozen brine and mysis shrimp, bloodworms, and nori.

Problem,

All inverts and pods are looking and acting fine.

I haven’t quarantined any of the fish. I’m setting up a quarantine tank ASAP and before I get anymore fish.

From the get go the powder blue has been aggressive to the mimic tang, but no injuries noticed.

A week ago I added the 4 engineer gobies, didn’t see any noticeable signs of illness.

I also added a carbon reactor with matrix carbon, ran 3 gallons of DI water through it to rinse the carbon. Mimic tang got HLLE two days after adding reactor and it progressed rapidly. I removed the carbon at first sight and filled the reactor with filter floss to try and get any carbon fines that may have escaped into the water and did a 30 % water change.

HLLE got worse and was soon followed by rapid breathing. (3-6 gill beats per second)

Powder blue showed no signs of HLLE but started breathing rapidly.

I figured I mush have gotten flukes from the engineer gobies and did the smart thing and started treating with ruby reef rally pro without checking first. (that’s why the skimmer has been off for two days.)

Two days later, my mimic tang was found dead. I inspected the body including gills, didn’t notice anything and placed he body in a black bucket of fresh water. After 20 minutes nothing but some of the slime cote came off or appeared on the body.

The powder blue is still breathing heavy and scratching, I also see the engineer gobies occasionally scratching.

Any ideas friends?

Should I turn my skimmer back on and work to get the rally pro out of the system?

Pictures to follow.
HLLE is never acutely fatal, so that is a red herring. Looking at the mimic tangs gills, they are pink/red so not super anemic. Stray voltage is also not an issue, as the fish are not grounded so there is no current flow.
Based on that, I would lean towards Amyloodinium / velvet. However, I can’t 100% rule out flukes and Prazipro is something that you may be able to use in you DT. Ruby Reef isn’t effective against flukes and may not control velvet either.
Jay
 
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vetteguy53081

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Mimic before passing.
IMG_20210422_210206_3.jpg

IMG_20210418_171025_4.jpg


Tank image
IMG_20210418_171034_3.jpg

The mimic in pic already showed face/head erosion. Symptoms are pitting on the head and deterioration of skin and scales along the lateral line. Head and Lateral Line Erosion leaves open wounds and hinders the immune system of the fish. Combining HLLE and poor water quality can be a fatal one-two punch for your fish. In advanced cases, the fins and gill covering begin to erode. While this condition is seldom fatal, it can horribly disfigure a once healthy fish. In my experience, minor cases that are stopped can allow a reversion to a normally appearing specimen, but once it has progressed too far, the fish may be permanently scarred. Factors such as high nitrate levels or perhaps dissolved organics in the water have all been implicated at one time or another as potential contributing factors causing HLLE.
Countless compounds that we cannot measure are constantly being produced in our aquariums. Just because the water quality appears to be in the proper ranges on standard aquarium test kits does not necessarily mean that the water is in perfect condition or that there are no foreign or deleterious dissolved compounds in the water.
Some have theorized that the activated carbon in the aquarium's filtration system could remove necessary trace elements that the fish require. Others hypothesize that activated carbon could leach something into the water that negatively affects the fish. And still others speculate that carbon dust may act as an irritant to the fish.
Also, check for stray voltage which can cause this and with what happened with the other losses. Velvet is still my suspect
 
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Seems like it could be a gill infection or velvet affecting the gills, not to mention Quite a few fish and addition of reactor all so suddenly. Although Rally is mild, it will lower oxygen a little and should not be used with carbon for best results.
Also, although the KH was in range, it is approaching the higher side and high alkalinity can turn ammonia more toxic.
Your ammonia was stated at zero. Are you using API test kits by chance?
So back to velvet-
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".
Appreciate the detail @vetteguy53081

All redsea kits. I learned the API curse early on. Ammonia is not over 0.2 PPM did three tests to make sure. Same results every time.
Fish were added slowly over 3 months, but that may have still been aggressive.

On the velvet symptoms I've seen the following,
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic ( comes out makes a few laps and retreats to a cave. This has only been the tangs, all others are active)
- Loss of appetite (very mild if at all)
- Rapid breathing ( it doesn't appear labored at all actually, I almost missed it altogether. No gaping while breathing or anything like that)

Just for clarification, are you thinking it's velvet?

Great info, thank again.
 

vetteguy53081

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Appreciate the detail @vetteguy53081

All redsea kits. I learned the API curse early on. Ammonia is not over 0.2 PPM did three tests to make sure. Same results every time.
Fish were added slowly over 3 months, but that may have still been aggressive.

On the velvet symptoms I've seen the following,
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic ( comes out makes a few laps and retreats to a cave. This has only been the tangs, all others are active)
- Loss of appetite (very mild if at all)
- Rapid breathing ( it doesn't appear labored at all actually, I almost missed it altogether. No gaping while breathing or anything like that)

Just for clarification, are you thinking it's velvet?

Great info, thank again.
Me- Yes along with diet And possibly reaction to the carbon,. ,, , , Leading to HLLE and even a possibility of stray voltage
 
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HLLE is never acutely fatal, so that is a red herring. Looking at the mimic tangs gills, they are pink/red so not super anemic. Stray voltage is also not an issue, as the fish are not grounded so there is no current flow.
Based on that, I would lean towards Amyloodinium / velvet. However, I can’t 100% rule out flukes and Prazipro is something that you may be able to use in you DT. Ruby Reef isn’t effective against flukes and may not control velvet either.
Jay
Thanks Jay,

I also purchased PraziPro when I got the rally. Do you think I should dose that? I have no beneficial worms at the moment just snails and shrimp. Any concerns about the remainder or the rally if I were to switch to the Prazi, or the health of the inverts?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks Jay,

I also purchased PraziPro when I got the rally. Do you think I should dose that? I have no beneficial worms at the moment just snails and shrimp. Any concerns about the remainder or the rally if I were to switch to the Prazi, or the health of the inverts?
No, just aerate well. Trouble is of course, if this is velvet and not flukes, it won’t help.
Jay
 
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vetteguy53081

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Thanks @vetteguy53081 . Would copper work for the flukes too if they were present?
I believe Jay mentioned and agreed - Prazi Pro is best But also prazi will reduce both oxygen and appetite
 
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I believe Jay mentioned and agreed - Prazi Pro is best But also prazi will reduce both oxygen and appetite
Got it, I'm concerned about the possibility of velvet now.

I highly appreciate you all for taking the time to help me.

I'm thinking it may be best for me to treat the entire system and remove inverts if needed for copper treatment.
I'm just trying to determine if velvet is the issue or not.

If I may burden you for feedback on the following plan;

Fresh water dip a few fish and look for flukes. (as I didn't see any with the dead tang please let me know if you think this unnecessary, First time dipper here and I'm a little gun shy about it)

Treat the tank with PraziPro tonight and monitor the fish. If no improvement is seen in 5 days of any more direct velvet signs emerge, remove the inverts and treat with copper designed to target Oodinium.

Thoughts?

Again, thank you all so much.
 
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Additionally, a good recommendation for a copper test kit would be great too as I don't currently have one.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Additionally, a good recommendation for a copper test kit would be great too as I don't currently have one.
The best way to measure copper is with the Hanna Checker. The worst way is with the API kit.

I'm worried about your plan because if it IS velvet, the fish won't last 5 days.

Looking for gill flukes in dip water requires a microscope, fill flukes are tiny. They end up looking like little balls of snot, I often miss them myself.

Jay
 
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