Deadly pimple on clownfish?

[TvanB1]

My clownfish has a ‘pimple’ right above her left gill plate. I have never seen anything like it. She is doing death spirals at the moment. I moved her to a tank with antibiotics. Ill try to get pictures but don’t want to stress her out any more than I already have.
Any help as to what steps I should take is appreciated.

 

[TvanB1]

The only thing in the tank with her were pvc pipes and a few medium bristle worms. Its connected to my main display where all other fish are doing well.

 

[TvanB1]

She is now resting at the bottom of the tank upside down. Breathing is rapid.

 

[TvanB1]

@Humblefish @Jay Hemdal

 

[TvanB1]

#reefsquad
Maybe some topical H2O2?

 

[Tommy's Reef]

Dang the circles of death, not good need pic?

 

[TvanB1]

Not my picture but it looks almost exactly like this.
Working on pics now..

 

[TvanB1]

Very bad pics but shes not wanting to show that side and ends up sitting at the bottom upside down. Plus I don’t want to stress her out too much by trying to grab and force her still.

 

[TvanB1]

Breathing is still rapid and the fish seem unable to control it’s buoyancy

 

[Tommy's Reef]

Yeah hes a goner homie. Sorry

 

[TvanB1]

Yeah hes a goner homie. Sorry

Yeah
You’ve been very helpful thank you

I’ve had fish come back from worse. Hoping for some helpful input.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry - I just woke up and saw this. Once a fish has become severely moribund like that, saving it is usually not possible. As far as what the lesion is, the two top ideas would be internal bacterial infection or Uronema. Both get started intracellularly, so you don't get any symptoms until the lesion breaks through the fish's skin. By then it has become systemic (causing the rapid breathing and inability to swim) and there really is no cure.

Jay

 

[Cell]

At that point Jay, is there risk of the lesion bursting and releasing harmful bacteria into the water column? I know when my mandarin had a cyst, there was mention of the potential of this occurring, but I never confirmed whether or not the risk was real.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

At that point Jay, is there risk of the lesion bursting and releasing harmful bacteria into the water column? I know when my mandarin had a cyst, there was mention of the potential of this occurring, but I never confirmed whether or not the risk was real.

Possible, but not probable. Both the bacteria and the Uronema are present in all aquariums, and do not normally cause disease, so your other fish have probably already been exposed to them, and haven't developed disease yet. Still - yo0u want to be vigilant. How long had you had the clownfish?

jay

 

[TvanB1]

Sorry - I just woke up and saw this. Once a fish has become severely moribund like that, saving it is usually not possible. As far as what the lesion is, the two top ideas would be internal bacterial infection or Uronema. Both get started intracellularly, so you don't get any symptoms until the lesion breaks through the fish's skin. By then it has become systemic (causing the rapid breathing and inability to swim) and there really is no cure.

Jay

The fish is still alive and upside down; do you think euthanasia would be appropriate in this situation?

 

[PicassoClown04]

The fish is still alive and upside down; do you think euthanasia would be appropriate in this situation?

I feel like that is definitely a viable option now, if the breathing is still bad and it looks like it’s suffering

 

[TvanB1]

How long had you had the clownfish?
jay

19 days
How could it have developed this infection?

 

[SMSREEF]

Slow down before you euthanize.
I had a clown burst it’s swim bladder and it fully recovered. Mine burst his due to trauma though. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/swim-bladder-rupture.733943/

You may try a methylene blue dip now while you get more info.

@Big G helped me save my guy.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

19 days
How could it have developed this infection?

Can't really say why infections from ubiquitous organisms get started. Sometimes it is something amiss with the fish's internal resistance to disease, other times it has to do with "propagule pressure" where there are just too many of these facultative parasitic organisms in a tank, and they overwhelm the fish. Often, it is a combination of both issues. Obligate parasites (ich, flukes, Brook, etc.) kind of do the same thing, but it takes less to get them going.

If the fish is still upside down, and is breathing faster than around 180 gill beats per minutes, I would euthanize it. Here is an excerpt from something I wrote about this:

Preferred methods for euthanasia



MS-222

Every aquarist should have a plan for specimen euthanasia before they need to employ it. An overdose of buffered Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS-222) is the preferred method for euthanizing fish. Dosing at a rate of greater than 300 mg/l MS-222 along with 300 mg/l sodium bicarbonate is effective for euthanizing fish within 30 minutes. However, MS-222 is expensive, and not readily available in smaller quantities to home aquarists. Removing the fish too soon from the solution may allow it to recover. It is therefore suggested to leave the fish in a small amount of the euthanizing solution, and freeze it for later disposal.



Clove oil (eugenol)

One product that aquarists can buy that is approved by at least some veterinarians and research biologists is clove oil, also called eugenol. A dose of 50 mg/l is usually sufficient in euthanizing fish. This equates to about 0.20 ml of eugenol in one gallon of aquarium water.



Because eugenol does not mix well with water, and because larger volumes are easier for hobbyists to measure out, it can be dosed using the following method:



1) Add 2 ml of eugenol to 100 ml of tank water in a sealed container and shake it vigorously.

2) Add 10 ml of this suspended solution to each gallon of water needed to euthanize the fish.

3) Place the fish in this solution and keep it covered to prevent it from jumping out and to help keep it calm.

4) Wait at least twenty minutes after it stops breathing, and then remove the fish from the solution and freeze it for later disposal.


Other methods

A variety of other methods have been proposed for the euthanasia of fishes, but none are fully accepted by veterinary experts. Still, home aquarists need some other tools to use, so the methods are listed here in roughly descending order of suitability:


Ethanol

Regular alcohol at a dose of 25 ml per liter will cause respiratory collapse and death in fishes within 30 minutes. The trouble is that alcohol is not available in pure form unless it has been “denatured” by the addition of distasteful chemicals such as turpentine. Vodka is about 40% alcohol by volume, so using it 62 ml per liter will give an effective dose.


Decapitation/pithing

Cutting a fish’s spinal cord, right behind the head, is a quick method of euthanasia that is approved for use in food fishes (where the use of chemicals would otherwise make the flesh unfit to eat). The issue is really that the method is distasteful for most people to do, so it is rarely used by aquarists. However, it is quick and effective.


Freezing

Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process.


An option of last resort

The animals in your aquariums are completely reliant on you for proper care. It is your responsibility to see to it that their lives in captivity are humane and that all of their needs are met. If you cannot meet their needs, please find someone who is more able. Euthanasia should be considered only for health reasons, not because it is no longer convenient to care for an animal.

So how can aquarists best utilize the information presented here? First, it is obvious that unless you constantly monitor the mortality rates of the animals under your care, you have no way of knowing if your husbandry skills are improving. Second, this information should serve to reinforce the idea that taking animals from the wild and holding them in captivity carries with it an important responsibility.

 

[TvanB1]

Can't really say why infections from ubiquitous organisms get started. Sometimes it is something amiss with the fish's internal resistance to disease, other times it has to do with "propagule pressure" where there are just too many of these facultative parasitic organisms in a tank, and they overwhelm the fish. Often, it is a combination of both issues. Obligate parasites (ich, flukes, Brook, etc.) kind of do the same thing, but it takes less to get them going.

If the fish is still upside down, and is breathing faster than around 180 gill beats per minutes, I would euthanize it. Here is an excerpt from something I wrote about this:

Preferred methods for euthanasia



MS-222

Every aquarist should have a plan for specimen euthanasia before they need to employ it. An overdose of buffered Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS-222) is the preferred method for euthanizing fish. Dosing at a rate of greater than 300 mg/l MS-222 along with 300 mg/l sodium bicarbonate is effective for euthanizing fish within 30 minutes. However, MS-222 is expensive, and not readily available in smaller quantities to home aquarists. Removing the fish too soon from the solution may allow it to recover. It is therefore suggested to leave the fish in a small amount of the euthanizing solution, and freeze it for later disposal.



Clove oil (eugenol)

One product that aquarists can buy that is approved by at least some veterinarians and research biologists is clove oil, also called eugenol. A dose of 50 mg/l is usually sufficient in euthanizing fish. This equates to about 0.20 ml of eugenol in one gallon of aquarium water.



Because eugenol does not mix well with water, and because larger volumes are easier for hobbyists to measure out, it can be dosed using the following method:



1) Add 2 ml of eugenol to 100 ml of tank water in a sealed container and shake it vigorously.

2) Add 10 ml of this suspended solution to each gallon of water needed to euthanize the fish.

3) Place the fish in this solution and keep it covered to prevent it from jumping out and to help keep it calm.

4) Wait at least twenty minutes after it stops breathing, and then remove the fish from the solution and freeze it for later disposal.


Other methods

A variety of other methods have been proposed for the euthanasia of fishes, but none are fully accepted by veterinary experts. Still, home aquarists need some other tools to use, so the methods are listed here in roughly descending order of suitability:


Ethanol

Regular alcohol at a dose of 25 ml per liter will cause respiratory collapse and death in fishes within 30 minutes. The trouble is that alcohol is not available in pure form unless it has been “denatured” by the addition of distasteful chemicals such as turpentine. Vodka is about 40% alcohol by volume, so using it 62 ml per liter will give an effective dose.


Decapitation/pithing

Cutting a fish’s spinal cord, right behind the head, is a quick method of euthanasia that is approved for use in food fishes (where the use of chemicals would otherwise make the flesh unfit to eat). The issue is really that the method is distasteful for most people to do, so it is rarely used by aquarists. However, it is quick and effective.


Freezing

Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process.


An option of last resort

The animals in your aquariums are completely reliant on you for proper care. It is your responsibility to see to it that their lives in captivity are humane and that all of their needs are met. If you cannot meet their needs, please find someone who is more able. Euthanasia should be considered only for health reasons, not because it is no longer convenient to care for an animal.

So how can aquarists best utilize the information presented here? First, it is obvious that unless you constantly monitor the mortality rates of the animals under your care, you have no way of knowing if your husbandry skills are improving. Second, this information should serve to reinforce the idea that taking animals from the wild and holding them in captivity carries with it an important responsibility.

I have clove oil on hand; if her condition does not improve by the time I get back home in an hour or so ill go forward with euthanasia.