Death March

[debees5]

My tank has been on a downward spiral for about three weeks. I posted in a few FB forums and the answers I received were related to the possibility of current in the tank from failing pump/heater, or magnets leaching aluminum. I wasn’t able to identify either of these issues in my tank.

Tank Description:
1.5 years old with live rock, some coral and fish from a previous tank that was 5 years old. Shallow sand bed with a large Tonga shelf rock sitting on the bottom of display tank.
110 gallon mixed reef
3 AI HD26 run in AB+ schedule 10 hr/day
2 Maxspect Gyres - 250
Nyos skimmer
Skimz macroalgae reactor
BRS Carbon/GFO reactor
UV Sterilizer (Pondmaster 500/gal)
Tradewinds drop in chiller/coil
2 GHL Dosing pumps
Eheim heater 300w
30 gal ATO reservoir with Tunze sensors
BRS 6 stage RO/DI system

Parameters:
Salinity 35ppt
Temp 78f
Ph 8.3
PO4 .03
NO3 5ppm
NO2 - 0
NH3 - 0
Alk 9.0
Ca 440
Mg 1400

Dosing - BRS two part & Mg, Red Sea Colors ABCD, Vibrant
Salt - changed from RS Coral Pro to IO Reef crystals around 3 months ago
Source water- after RO/DI - 0 TDS

Background: Treated tank for cyano using chemiclean about a month ago. I believe the cyano was caused by my gyres running at half speed because they were running on backup batteries that I had set up wrong (in essence, my gyres were running off of backup batteries and the batteries put them at reduced speed because the power cable to the controller was plugged in wrong ).
I did a water change two days after treatment. Sent in an ICP test. The only parameter that was off was Aluminum with significant high reading of .218 ppm. I couldn’t water change my way out of that so I used Metasorb for 10 days. Followed by three water changes, three carbon changes.

Coral & Invertebrate death: The first death was a large Palythoa colony after the chempure treatment. At the same time, long dormant GSP began to flourish. Then, I had a rapid gha outbreak (PO4 was at .06 and NO3 was 25 ppm) , so I added some high capacity gfo in a media bag (in addition to what was in the reactor) and increased the vibrant dose. Then, in a steady succession;
Long tentacle plate, Scoly, Birdsnests, favias, acans, green slimer, Cali torts, red planet, favites, war coral, pink stylo colony, several acro colonies, merletti colony, three Pocillopora, large zoanthid colony, monti digi, two deresa clams, two BTAs, 15 ultra RFA, two gonis, purple stylo, multiple torches, frogspawn and hammers, died.

What’s left: some montis are hanging on but losing color, one paly colony, a BTA, a few leathers, GSP, purple gorgonia, Ricordeas, and a very sickly Goni, alveopora, and metallic hammer colony that are barely alive. All the fish are healthy, still have a good CUC. The GHA is gone, but some brownish crap took its place. I’m just using a soft toothbrush on the rock hoping it might just be dead GHA.

I pretty much prepared myself to lose everything and wasn’t even sure I wanted to rebuild it if it all failed. My tank looks so bad, I can barely bring myself to look at it, I’m very disheartened and don’t want to even think about investing in coral again until I figure out what went wrong.

I have not found the source of aluminum, I have not sent in a follow up ICP test to make sure the metasorb worked.

 

[Hemmdog]

I’m sorry for your crash. It sounds like nutrients bottomed out and dinos took over potentially depriving the tank of oxygen. Just a theory. Sorry again for your loss.

 

[debees5]

I’m sorry for your crash. It sounds like nutrients bottomed out and dinos took over potentially depriving the tank of oxygen. Just a theory. Sorry again for your loss.

Wouldn’t the fish have had issues if Oxygen was deficient? They aren’t showing any signs of stress (although I sure am [emoji30]).

 

[ScottR]

Wouldn’t the fish have had issues if Oxygen was deficient? They aren’t showing any signs of stress (although I sure am [emoji30]).

I didn’t see fish mentioned in your post. Maybe I missed it. How do the fish look? Normal? Gasping? Staying at the bottom? Eating?

 

[debees5]

I mention the fish briefly in the ‘whats Left’ section. They haven’t shown any stress at all.

 

[debees5]

I mention the fish briefly in the ‘whats Left’ section. They haven’t shown any stress at all.

Yellow tang, blue tang, matted filefish, 3 six striped wrasse, 3 yellow wrasse, 3 royal grammas, 3 yellow/blue dang damsels, blue dot sleeper goby, lawnmower blenny and a tailspot blenny. All are fat and sassy.

 

[ScottR]

I mention the fish briefly in the ‘whats Left’ section. They haven’t shown any stress at all.

I see. That’s a good sign. Fish can survive parameter swings (like alk, temp, Ca, salinity) but corals aren’t so forgiving. Not saying I think that’s the cause but I’ve killed corals and it’s always due to alk, salinity, or temp swings.

 

[ScottR]

Corals I’ve killed: Heater problem. Melted all my softies and SPS. Monti survived. Zoas and a few others.

ATO problem. Salinity and alk shot way up and I didn’t catch it in time. All SPS died.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I’ll put it down to the miss use of vibrant, wend not used properly it will bring and P down to fast and kill coral, there’s a lot of lotions and potions to resolve different issues they all should be researched properly before use. Am really sore for what happened to you mate, the best thing now is to let tings settle and don’t do any more changes until all back to normal.

 

[REEFer86]

My tank has been on a downward spiral for about three weeks. I posted in a few FB forums and the answers I received were related to the possibility of current in the tank from failing pump/heater, or magnets leaching aluminum. I wasn’t able to identify either of these issues in my tank.

Tank Description:
1.5 years old with live rock, some coral and fish from a previous tank that was 5 years old. Shallow sand bed with a large Tonga shelf rock sitting on the bottom of display tank.
110 gallon mixed reef
3 AI HD26 run in AB+ schedule 10 hr/day
2 Maxspect Gyres - 250
Nyos skimmer
Skimz macroalgae reactor
BRS Carbon/GFO reactor
UV Sterilizer (Pondmaster 500/gal)
Tradewinds drop in chiller/coil
2 GHL Dosing pumps
Eheim heater 300w
30 gal ATO reservoir with Tunze sensors
BRS 6 stage RO/DI system

Parameters:
Salinity 35ppt
Temp 78f
Ph 8.3
PO4 .03
NO3 5ppm
NO2 - 0
NH3 - 0
Alk 9.0
Ca 440
Mg 1400

Dosing - BRS two part & Mg, Red Sea Colors ABCD, Vibrant
Salt - changed from RS Coral Pro to IO Reef crystals around 3 months ago
Source water- after RO/DI - 0 TDS

Background: Treated tank for cyano using chemiclean about a month ago. I believe the cyano was caused by my gyres running at half speed because they were running on backup batteries that I had set up wrong (in essence, my gyres were running off of backup batteries and the batteries put them at reduced speed because the power cable to the controller was plugged in wrong ).
I did a water change two days after treatment. Sent in an ICP test. The only parameter that was off was Aluminum with significant high reading of .218 ppm. I couldn’t water change my way out of that so I used Metasorb for 10 days. Followed by three water changes, three carbon changes.

Coral & Invertebrate death: The first death was a large Palythoa colony after the chempure treatment. At the same time, long dormant GSP began to flourish. Then, I had a rapid gha outbreak (PO4 was at .06 and NO3 was 25 ppm) , so I added some high capacity gfo in a media bag (in addition to what was in the reactor) and increased the vibrant dose. Then, in a steady succession;
Long tentacle plate, Scoly, Birdsnests, favias, acans, green slimer, Cali torts, red planet, favites, war coral, pink stylo colony, several acro colonies, merletti colony, three Pocillopora, large zoanthid colony, monti digi, two deresa clams, two BTAs, 15 ultra RFA, two gonis, purple stylo, multiple torches, frogspawn and hammers, died.

What’s left: some montis are hanging on but losing color, one paly colony, a BTA, a few leathers, GSP, purple gorgonia, Ricordeas, and a very sickly Goni, alveopora, and metallic hammer colony that are barely alive. All the fish are healthy, still have a good CUC. The GHA is gone, but some brownish crap took its place. I’m just using a soft toothbrush on the rock hoping it might just be dead GHA.

I pretty much prepared myself to lose everything and wasn’t even sure I wanted to rebuild it if it all failed. My tank looks so bad, I can barely bring myself to look at it, I’m very disheartened and don’t want to even think about investing in coral again until I figure out what went wrong.

I have not found the source of aluminum, I have not sent in a follow up ICP test to make sure the metasorb worked.

my biggest fear. Maybe the gyres burnt out? Do you use filter socks? I’m guessing not since I didn’t see a mention of a Sump. I would replace all filter media again. And yes taking off the gunk from the rocks is a good idea because they most like Absorbed aluminum. Do you have a quarantine tank? So sorry. Send another ICP. Keep us posted.

 

[naterealbig]

Hi there, I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. I certainly would not be handling this well either.

What truly is sticking out to me here is the use of high capacity gfo. If your phosphate started out at 0.06 ppm (which by most reefing measures is not very high to begin with), then a large amount of gfo would have completely removed all phosphate from the water column. This would have a marked detrimental impact on the corals.

How much gfo did you add?. Do you still have the gfo in the reactor?. What test kit are you using to measure phosphate and nitrate?

Additionally, the gfo would have no impact on nitrate, which is likely why the algae started to grow (and less because of the phosphate level). Although I imagine that the NO3 is now pretty low after all of the water changes.

If this were my tank I would:.

1. Remove gfo (if not already done) along with all other chemical filtration media.
2. Like reefer86 mentioned, I would send in another ICP test.
3. Stop all large water changes until things stabilize and start looking better. Water changes will not hurt, but perhaps smaller more frequent may be better. I might do 5 gallons twice a week.
4. Spot feed all corals after lights out with all pumps off. I would spot feed Sps with a quality amino acid, and would spot feed the LPS and softies with amino + reef roids/reef chili. You will need to be very careful with this, as feeding too much can cause increased phosphate and nitrate. This nutrient rich mix will provide some nourishment and much needed phosphorus to the corals, and will help them heal. I might do this once, and note the response from the corals. From there you can decide to feed again, but would not do this more than twice a week. Also, be prepared to change out filter socks daily, and skim wet - this will help prevent a spike in NO3/PO4.
5. Continue to look for source of aluminum. Based on this article https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/ - the Reef Crystals is not your source of aluminum. The icp testing indicates relative high levels, however they are only measuring ~ 9 micrograms per liter (which I believe translates roughly to 9 ppb. Or, 0.009 ppm ).

 

[naterealbig]

This article on metals in the aquarium by Dr. Randy Holmes Farley will be a good read. Note the large amount of aluminum in some commercial foods. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/

 

[debees5]

W

This article on metals in the aquarium by Dr. Randy Holmes Farley will be a good read. Note the large amount of aluminum in some commercial foods. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/

Wow! Interesting article. I use food grade clams in my frozen food mix, and always use Nori. This is a good article.

 

[naterealbig]

W

Wow! Interesting article. I use food grade clams in my frozen food mix, and always use Nori. This is a good article.

Understood - sounds like you are on track with the feeding, just thought I'd throw it out there. I will continue to think about the issue and post my thoughts as they come.

1. I assume you have disassembled all pumps and checked for any components that may have metal in them (cooling fans, grounding probes, etc), to look for corrosion, deterioration, cracks in housings, etc?.

2. Check for any liquid inside heaters?

3. Checked for any condensation in the canopy or air conditioning vents above the display that may be dripping into the water?

4. Checked under stand to see if anything might be dripping into the sump, or anything for corroding that might be falling into the sump?

5. While unlikely, I'm curious if you have had an ICP test on your RODI water to get a baseline for elements?

 

[debees5]

Hi there, I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. I certainly would not be handling this well either.

What truly is sticking out to me here is the use of high capacity gfo. If your phosphate started out at 0.06 ppm (which by most reefing measures is not very high to begin with), then a large amount of gfo would have completely removed all phosphate from the water column. This would have a marked detrimental impact on the corals.

How much gfo did you add?. Do you still have the gfo in the reactor?. What test kit are you using to measure phosphate and nitrate?

Additionally, the gfo would have no impact on nitrate, which is likely why the algae started to grow (and less because of the phosphate level). Although I imagine that the NO3 is now pretty low after all of the water changes.

If this were my tank I would:.

1. Remove gfo (if not already done) along with all other chemical filtration media.
2. Like reefer86 mentioned, I would send in another ICP test.
3. Stop all large water changes until things stabilize and start looking better. Water changes will not hurt, but perhaps smaller more frequent may be better. I might do 5 gallons twice a week.
4. Spot feed all corals after lights out with all pumps off. I would spot feed Sps with a quality amino acid, and would spot feed the LPS and softies with amino + reef roids/reef chili. You will need to be very careful with this, as feeding too much can cause increased phosphate and nitrate. This nutrient rich mix will provide some nourishment and much needed phosphorus to the corals, and will help them heal. I might do this once, and note the response from the corals. From there you can decide to feed again, but would not do this more than twice a week. Also, be prepared to change out filter socks daily, and skim wet - this will help prevent a spike in NO3/PO4.
5. Continue to look for source of aluminum. Based on this article https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/ - the Reef Crystals is not your source of aluminum. The icp testing indicates relative high levels, however they are only measuring ~ 9 micrograms per liter (which I believe translates roughly to 9 ppb. Or, 0.009 ppm ).

Yet RC had the highest concentration of Al of all the salts tested. Based on this article and the one mentioned below, I think the salt, combined with the home made food I mix which has a lot of crab, and my Nori flakes are the source of my Al parameters.

 

[debees5]

Understood - sounds like you are on track with the feeding, just thought I'd throw it out there. I will continue to think about the issue and post my thoughts as they come.

1. I assume you have disassembled all pumps and checked for any components that may have metal in them (cooling fans, grounding probes, etc), to look for corrosion, deterioration, cracks in housings, etc?.
Yes
2. Check for any liquid inside heaters?
No
3. Checked for any condensation in the canopy or air conditioning vents above the display that may be dripping into the water?
n/a
4. Checked under stand to see if anything might be dripping into the sump, or anything for corroding that might be falling into the sump?
None
5. While unlikely, I'm curious if you have had an ICP test on your RODI water to get a baseline for elements?
Yes

I did check all the equipment for corrosion and the current/stray voltage that was recommended in a post I made on the #askbrs FB group. I did have my RO/DI tested which resulted in a long thread in the same group as well as a BRS Youtube video discussing Chloride vs Chlorine in ICP analysis - bottom line - Al is not in my source water.

 

[debees5]

my biggest fear. Maybe the gyres burnt out? Do you use filter socks? I’m guessing not since I didn’t see a mention of a Sump. I would replace all filter media again. And yes taking off the gunk from the rocks is a good idea because they most like Absorbed aluminum. Do you have a quarantine tank? So sorry. Send another ICP. Keep us posted.

I do have a sump - it’s where all the reactors, skimmer and chiller coil are. The gyres are now fine, I had to hook them up correctly to the icecap backup batteries, then they functioned normally. The did run at 50% reduction for several weeks before I realized they were not functioning correctly. I use filter pads in the filter cups which I change out every three days (more often during this trying period) along with cleaning the skimmer cup.

 

[REEFer86]

I do have a sump - it’s where all the reactors, skimmer and chiller coil are. The gyres are now fine, I had to hook them up correctly to the icecap backup batteries, then they functioned normally. The did run at 50% reduction for several weeks before I realized they were not functioning correctly. I use filter pads in the filter cups which I change out every three days (more often during this trying period) along with cleaning the skimmer cup.

Yeah missed that part! Any progress and did you decide to send another test?

 

[debees5]

I pulled the high capacity gfo today (except a small amount in the dual carbon/gfo reactor) scrubbed the rock some more, pulled out the remaining SPS that were 95% dead. Refreshed the CUC. Put the lights on 50% acclimation. GHA is 95% gone. Remaining corals are no better but no worse either. Waiting a few days to see if the tank is at a plateau before I send it for icp testing.

 

[REEFer86]

How’s it going?