Deep Sand Beds still a thing?

[Rjramos]

I thought about using mudd also, I ultimately chose the 5 gal. bucket RDSB because it has a benefit of acting like a calcium reactor. I have about 14" of Aragonite in my bucket and the deeper the sand bed, below the anoxic layer, the water actually becomes acidic, causing a small amount of the Aragonite to dissolve into the water column, as I'd always had a problem keeping my Ph high enough. Once the RDSB was online, Ph went to 8.4 and stayed there, no matter what time of day/night I took a reading.

Incidentally, I just checked the Nano tanks ph and amonnia with a piece of live rock that I'm quarantining before seeding my show tank. After one month, Ph is already reading 8.1 from a start of 7.8. So, it seems that the 15 oz plastic bottle with Aragonite is doing it's job.

Now, I'm reading .25 ammonia, down from 4.0 last week. I ghost feed about once a week. Still not showing any nitrite though... But maybe my test fluid may have become out of date. Anyone know if API brand goes bad over time?

Here are pictures of pamphlet and some pages. This was copyrighted in 2000.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

That’s good to know- why are people advising against it?

I see people advise against it in the display (for good reason). I feel it's a ticking time bomb and you have to have that worry/risk of accidentally disturbing it. I also think a lot of newer innovation with flow and types of pumps available makes deep sand beds hard to manage.

It's not like the science behind it all changed, I think deep sand beds in the sump are still popular and I think they are more manageable because IF you ever wanted to get rid of it then it's easy to isolate from the system and poses no risk of sulfur nutrient explosions to your main display.

 

[JOKER]

I see people advise against it in the display (for good reason). I feel it's a ticking time bomb and you have to have that worry/risk of accidentally disturbing it. I also think a lot of newer innovation with flow and types of pumps available makes deep sand beds hard to manage.

It's not like the science behind it all changed, I think deep sand beds in the sump are still popular and I think they are more manageable because IF you ever wanted to get rid of it then it's easy to isolate from the system and poses no risk of sulfur nutrient explosions to your main display.

I just went through a sump replacement that had a baffle seam turn loose on my DIY sump. I was worried I would have some type of mini cycle or something removing my deep sand bed in the sump. I think it was 10", and I replaced it with all new sand seeded with a few cups from my old sand. My tank is SPS dominant, and I can say I didn't notice any ill affects. I am a believer in the deep sand bed in sump.

 

[ThePlummer]

Here are pictures of pamphlet and some pages. This was copyrighted in 2000.

I chose not to use the plenum... It doesn't appear to me to have any benefit over just a deep bucket of Aragonite. The water in the plenum is anoxic and therefore acidic. Acid dissolves Aragonite, releasing calcium into the water column, as well as stabilizing the PH.

Also, the 'too deep' sand bed causes a release of Hydrogen sulfide has been resoundingly proven false. Yes, Hydrogen sulfide is created deep in the sandbed, but as it migrates upward toward the Aerobic zone, there is a chemical conversion that happens automatically (Wish I could remember the technical name for the process, there is a very intelligent fellow on youtube that explains the process quite well) so I don't worry about it happening.

What I worry about is making sure that the water is thoroughly filtered prior to it entering the RDSB, as I'm trying to prevent what others have long since stated about regular DSB's becoming contaminated with detritus. I'm not trying to grow microphauna in it, but rather think of it as solely for PH/Alkalinity stability as well as both nitrification and denitrification. With this concept it is possible to maintain a much heavier bioload in the display tank.

My rule of thumb is, I continue to add life, till I start to see a small increase in nitrates. This to me means that I'm maxing the capability of the RDSB to denitrify. I can then either discontinue to add more life, or make another RDSB and daisy chain it into my system.

 

[burgundy]

I only have one question for the well-informed.

I've used a DSB in the past with aragonite sand (oolitic type if memory serves well); hobbyists across the pond advise against it and say to use silica sand. Any thoughts on that specifically?

No idea why they prefer it, but I know silica sand is good for putting silica into the tank which is great for growing sponges and diatoms. Diatoms not being bad as snails and zooplankton, others as well consume diatoms.

 

[burgundy]

I have never heard this and do not know why you would want silica sand in a reef?
To me you would be loosing the benefits of the calcium carbonate.

Any info on this? I would be interested on reading this.

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

Wow, I found the article after replying.

 

[pygoplites77]

Here is my take on the 2020 version.

• No minimum tank size
• 3 inches, or more, depending on taste/preference
• Aragonite
• Mixed grain size, but still small enough for sand sifters to utilize (not sure ATM what the ideal size is)
• Leave it alone
• Flow just up to the point where the sand moves in an established tank - early on sand will move more freely but it settles down once it gets bacteria and stuff on it.
• No organic carbon or GFO at least for many years - you want the no3 to build up so that the anoxic bacteria in the sand has food to grow and establish
• When you start to see lots of worms (all kinds), pods and other micro fauna, then get some sifters and cleaners - I prefer Caribbean conchs and cucumbers. This might be near the one-year mark.
• Water changes and skim heavy. Feed normally. Heavy import and export of food.
• At first, the P will be VERY low because the sand will absorb most of it. Once the sand starts to absorb some and the water level starts to rise to where you want it, then get a fuge online. For me, this is 1 or 2 parts per billion, but YMMV.
• In years 3 or 4, clean just a tiny bit with 2-3 months between so that the cleaned areas have time to re-establish as oxic or anoxic. I siphon to the bottom so the zones definitely get disturbed.
• Add sand if some dissolves or gets sucked up in cleaning
• Most importantly, send me frags of your nice stuff as thanks for the help
• Feel free to add on

Seriously, if you want to do this, then go all-in on a natural method and resist the urge to buy a whole bunch of reactors and chemicals. All that you should need is to change some water on a regular schedule and run some 2 part or get a CaRx.

Recommended, but harder: use real live rock if you can. I don't care what anybody says, all dry rock has bound terrestrial phosphate and while you can mitigate some, there is still some in there. This will require more fuge or export mechanism later. If Indo ever comes back online, then this is best rock, IMO... more porous and better at nitrification and housing microfauna. For me, man-made rock is the worst and is dense and hard like concrete.

Hi, I wanted to ask you for some advice for starting my first DSB (I come from a pure Berliner).
1) I have a 500 lt aquarium and I have prepared a 12 cm dsb with ATI FIJI White Sand calcium carbonate (0.3 - 1.2 mm), what do you think is the right amount of live rocks? I ordered 50 kg Indonesia Cites, is that too much?
2) Does calcium carbonate also bind phosphate like oolytic aragonite, helping to keep its level low?
3) Would it be a good idea to put all the acropora from my old aquarium together as soon as the values stabilize below (maybe after 1 month)? I was told this would be good for the system, as corals contribute to maturation by absorbing nutrients (of course I wouldn't include fish)
4) What do you mean, when you talk about po4, by "fuge online" and "YMMV"? My automatic translator does not understand Thank you very much and sorry for my google english ...

 

[jda]

I do not know how much rock or sand will be needed.

Yes, aragonite is calcium carbonate - both bind phosphate.

I would move things from one aquarium to the other very slowly.

YMMV means: your mileage may vary, meaning that not everybody always has the same results or opinons. Fuge online means to have a refugium up and running.

 

[pygoplites77]

[QUOTE = "jda, post: 8154029, membro: 30252"]
Non so quanta roccia o sabbia sarà necessaria.

Sì, l'aragonite è carbonato di calcio, entrambi legano il fosfato.

Sposterei le cose da un acquario all'altro molto lentamente.

YMMV significa: il tuo chilometraggio può variare, il che significa che non tutti hanno sempre gli stessi risultati o opinioni. Fuge online significa avere un refugium attivo e funzionante.
[/CITAZIONE]
tank you!