Demsel started breathing heavy again

[KING KONG]

Update- it is getting better but now it started developing white dots on it's fin which may be lympho. It is respirating faster with wide mouth open and doing some kind of flashing which can be coz of parasite or detritus. It has stopped eating pellets so now it is only eating prawns or brine shrimp

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update- it is getting better but now it started developing white dots on it's fin which may be lympho. It is respirating faster with wide mouth open and doing some kind of flashing which can be coz of parasite or detritus. It has stopped eating pellets so now it is only eating prawns or brine shrimp

Lymphocystis is never seen in long term captive fish, so you can rule that out.

Jay

 

[KING KONG]

Lymphocystis is never seen in long term captive fish, so you can rule that out.

Jay

Ohk so it can be sand? I can't get photo so that's a problem but it is looking good. My previous tang also had it so can be possible that demsel had it but it has came out due to stress or I had not notice it or it can be itch as it is doing kind of itching? I think I should wait if I see something I'll treat for ich if needed

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ohk so it can be sand? I can't get photo so that's a problem but it is looking good. My previous tang also had it so can be possible that demsel had it but it has came out due to stress or I had not notice it or it can be itch as it is doing kind of itching? I think I should wait if I see something I'll treat for ich if needed

It could be sand, but this fish has chronic health issues that are separate from that.

Jay

 

[KING KONG]

Update- looking good. Sometimes breathing comes back to normal and sometimes it starts rapid breathing. It still hv white nodules in it's fin which is looking like that which my tang had(lympho) but not worried about it for now. It is avoiding pellets but I am feeding it prawns and brine shrimp which I get from lfs. As soon as it gets well I'll do a fw dip and drain whole water of my qt to assure that I don't hv itch

 

[KING KONG]

It could be sand, but this fish has chronic health issues that are separate from that.

Jay

White spot is still there. Is it coz of injury? Also it is shaking head after every feeding. Here comes vedio

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

White spot is still there. Is it coz of injury? Also it is shaking head after every feeding. Here comes vedio

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

The spot on the top of the right pectoral fin? That does look like a minor injury.

Jay

 

[KING KONG]

The spot on the top of the right pectoral fin? That does look like a minor injury.

Jay

That spot is on both the fins. I had to figure out what is leading to these injuries in my tank.
Thank you so much

 

[Sharkbait19]

That spot is on both the fins. I had to figure out what is leading to these injuries in my tank.
Thank you so much

Is it still with a lion?

 

[KING KONG]

Is it still with a lion?

Yup 2 days ago I shifted it. I don't think it will make it. I think it will be a short live fish now and my qt was small for it. I don't think lion was culprit. I have place a small camera to keep an eye so that I get to know what was it

 

[KING KONG]

Ahh now it developed a fungus like thing on it's tail. It is getting different diseases very quickly.

Demsel with tail rot

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

I'll try to get clear vedio as soon as it come out

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ahh now it developed a fungus like thing on it's tail. It is getting different diseases very quickly.

Demsel with tail rot

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

I'll try to get clear vedio as soon as it come out

External fungal infections in marine fish are very rare (I've only seen a couple of cases). This is likely either a bacterial infection, or a rub mark from how it is moving its fin...if that brushes against the rocks, that will cause this sort of issue.

To be honest, that fish's breathing is really serious, as I've mentioned, it is a sign of a chronic disease of some sort. If it were my fish, I would euthanize it. If it stops eating, then for certain it needs to be euthanized - sorry!

Jay

 

[KING KONG]

if that brushes against the rocks, that will cause this sort of issue.

Yes it is doing this, scratching against the rock. The thing is it is still eating but after every eating,shaking it's head and sometimes throw food out of it's mouth

 

[KING KONG]

External fungal infections in marine fish are very rare (I've only seen a couple of cases). This is likely either a bacterial infection, or a rub mark from how it is moving its fin...if that brushes against the rocks, that will cause this sort of issue.

To be honest, that fish's breathing is really serious, as I've mentioned, it is a sign of a chronic disease of some sort. If it were my fish, I would euthanize it. If it stops eating, then for certain it needs to be euthanized - sorry!

Jay

It disappeared so what should I do now? I was thinking to enthausize it today. It is still eating and today it is again started attacking the lionfish.

Can I do something about rapid breathing? That is only problem for now. I hv already done fw dip but seen nothing and surprisingly it stayed in fw for 15 min

 

[Jay Hemdal]

IMO - given the history of the fish and no benefit seen from the FW dip, the rapid breathing is not caused by a treatable external parasite. That means it is from some systemic problem. I use a series of symptoms to indicate when it is time to euthanize a fish. Not eating is one of them. Since your fish is eating, you could wait on that I suppose.

Jsay

 

[KING KONG]

IMO - given the history of the fish and no benefit seen from the FW dip, the rapid breathing is not caused by a treatable external parasite. That means it is from some systemic problem. I use a series of symptoms to indicate when it is time to euthanize a fish. Not eating is one of them. Since your fish is eating, you could wait on that I suppose.

Jay

Tail rot again started. I hv treated it but again it's tail end is turning white and tail is rotting. It is still eating but I think this time if it loss more tail, I should enthausize it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tail rot again started. I hv treated it but again it's tail end is turning white and tail is rotting. It is still eating but I think this time if it loss more tail, I should enthausize it.

Sorry to hear.

Here is an article I wrote on that topic:

Euthanasia

Euthanasia is a word derived from two Greek words that roughly translates to “good death”. In other words, euthanasia is the painless killing of an organism. In general usage, there is also the underlying understanding that euthanasia is performed on terminal patients only. This however, is not always the case with aquarium animals. Euthanasia may be performed as a population management tool, or for scientific research. Sometimes the phrase “humane euthanasia” is used, but that is redundant, as the lack of pain means the process is humane.

In this era of quick fixes and immediate gratification, it can be difficult for aquarists to understand that some fish diseases are simply not going to respond to any medication or treatment provided. Some ailing fishes, especially those with chronic diseases, simply cannot be cured and are in fact, slowly dying. Once they reach the point of being “moribund” (not able to feed or swim normally) euthanasia should be considered as a humane alternative to continued unsuccessful treatments.

Do fish feel pain?
Some research has indicated that fish do feel pain, while other studies show that they don’t. The true answer probably lies somewhere in-between; fish do feel an avoidance to adverse stimulus, but it isn’t “conscious pain” as seen in mammals. Termed “Nociception”, this is an animal’s nervous system's response to potentially harmful stimuli. Nociception triggers a variety of physiological and behavioral responses and usually results in a subjective experience of pain in sentient beings. It is less clear how fish and invertebrates receive nociception; is it felt as classical pain, or does it simply create an avoidance response in the animal? Since it is better to err on the side of caution, so euthanasia (painless death) is the most humane option.

Whatever degree of pain or physical discomfort fish experience, it can be argued that allowing chronically ill fish to continue suffering from any major nociception is ethically questionable.

When is euthanasia warranted?

Euthanasia should be considered for a fish if:

1) It has a chronic, untreatable disease (such as tumors, blindness, or starvation)
2) The fish is “moribund” due to severe injury or illness.
3) In some cases, euthanasia is considered necessary for population management reasons. For the sake of argument, let’s say that a population of an endangered species is being managed for conservation purposes, and there is an issue where if the male/female ratio becomes skewed, and increased numbers of one sex (often the males) will disrupt the integrity of the whole population. In that case, it may be best to euthanize the surplus males in order to better preserve the genetic diversity of the entire population.

The American Veterinary Medical Association have their 2020 euthanasia guidelines posted online at https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf

Preferred methods for euthanasia

MS-222
Every aquarist should have a plan for specimen euthanasia before they need to employ it. An overdose of buffered Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS-222) is the preferred method for euthanizing fish. Dosing at a rate of greater than 300 mg/l MS-222 along with 300 mg/l sodium bicarbonate is effective for euthanizing fish within 30 minutes. However, MS-222 is expensive, and not readily available in smaller quantities to home aquarists. Removing the fish too soon from the solution may allow it to recover. It is therefore suggested to leave the fish in a small amount of the euthanizing solution, and freeze it for later disposal.

Clove oil (eugenol)
One product that aquarists can buy that is approved by at least some veterinarians and research biologists is clove oil, also called eugenol. A dose of 50 mg/l is usually sufficient in euthanizing fish. This equates to about 0.20 ml of eugenol in one gallon of aquarium water.

Because eugenol does not mix well with water, and because larger volumes are easier for hobbyists to measure out, it can be dosed using the following method:

1) Add 2 ml of eugenol to 100 ml of tank water in a sealed container and shake it vigorously.

2) Add 10 ml of this suspended solution to each gallon of water needed to euthanize the fish.

3) Place the fish in this solution and keep it covered to prevent it from jumping out and to help keep it calm.

4) Wait at least twenty minutes after it stops breathing, and then remove the fish from the solution and freeze it for later disposal.


Other methods
A variety of other methods have been proposed for the euthanasia of fishes, but none are fully accepted by veterinary experts. Still, home aquarists need more common tools to use, so those methods are listed here in roughly descending order of suitability:

Ethanol
Regular alcohol at a dose of 25 ml per liter will cause respiratory collapse and death in fishes within 30 minutes. The trouble is that alcohol is not available in pure form unless it has been “denatured” by the addition of distasteful chemicals such as turpentine. Vodka is about 40% alcohol by volume, so using it 62 ml per liter will give an effective dose.

Decapitation/pithing
Cutting a fish’s spinal cord, right behind the head, is a quick method of euthanasia that is approved for use in food fishes (where the use of chemicals would otherwise make the flesh unfit to eat). The issue is really that the method is distasteful for most people to do, so it is rarely used by aquarists. However, it is quick and effective.

Freezing
Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process.


An option of last resort
The animals in your aquariums are completely reliant on you for proper care. It is your responsibility to see to it that their lives in captivity are humane as possible and that all of their needs are met. If you cannot meet their needs, please find someone who is more able. Euthanasia should be considered only for health reasons, not because it is no longer convenient to care for an animal.

Jay

 

[KING KONG]

Sorry to hear.

Here is an article I wrote on that topic:

Euthanasia

Euthanasia is a word derived from two Greek words that roughly translates to “good death”. In other words, euthanasia is the painless killing of an organism. In general usage, there is also the underlying understanding that euthanasia is performed on terminal patients only. This however, is not always the case with aquarium animals. Euthanasia may be performed as a population management tool, or for scientific research. Sometimes the phrase “humane euthanasia” is used, but that is redundant, as the lack of pain means the process is humane.

In this era of quick fixes and immediate gratification, it can be difficult for aquarists to understand that some fish diseases are simply not going to respond to any medication or treatment provided. Some ailing fishes, especially those with chronic diseases, simply cannot be cured and are in fact, slowly dying. Once they reach the point of being “moribund” (not able to feed or swim normally) euthanasia should be considered as a humane alternative to continued unsuccessful treatments.

Do fish feel pain?
Some research has indicated that fish do feel pain, while other studies show that they don’t. The true answer probably lies somewhere in-between; fish do feel an avoidance to adverse stimulus, but it isn’t “conscious pain” as seen in mammals. Termed “Nociception”, this is an animal’s nervous system's response to potentially harmful stimuli. Nociception triggers a variety of physiological and behavioral responses and usually results in a subjective experience of pain in sentient beings. It is less clear how fish and invertebrates receive nociception; is it felt as classical pain, or does it simply create an avoidance response in the animal? Since it is better to err on the side of caution, so euthanasia (painless death) is the most humane option.

Whatever degree of pain or physical discomfort fish experience, it can be argued that allowing chronically ill fish to continue suffering from any major nociception is ethically questionable.

When is euthanasia warranted?

Euthanasia should be considered for a fish if:

1) It has a chronic, untreatable disease (such as tumors, blindness, or starvation)
2) The fish is “moribund” due to severe injury or illness.
3) In some cases, euthanasia is considered necessary for population management reasons. For the sake of argument, let’s say that a population of an endangered species is being managed for conservation purposes, and there is an issue where if the male/female ratio becomes skewed, and increased numbers of one sex (often the males) will disrupt the integrity of the whole population. In that case, it may be best to euthanize the surplus males in order to better preserve the genetic diversity of the entire population.

The American Veterinary Medical Association have their 2020 euthanasia guidelines posted online at https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf

Preferred methods for euthanasia

MS-222
Every aquarist should have a plan for specimen euthanasia before they need to employ it. An overdose of buffered Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS-222) is the preferred method for euthanizing fish. Dosing at a rate of greater than 300 mg/l MS-222 along with 300 mg/l sodium bicarbonate is effective for euthanizing fish within 30 minutes. However, MS-222 is expensive, and not readily available in smaller quantities to home aquarists. Removing the fish too soon from the solution may allow it to recover. It is therefore suggested to leave the fish in a small amount of the euthanizing solution, and freeze it for later disposal.

Clove oil (eugenol)
One product that aquarists can buy that is approved by at least some veterinarians and research biologists is clove oil, also called eugenol. A dose of 50 mg/l is usually sufficient in euthanizing fish. This equates to about 0.20 ml of eugenol in one gallon of aquarium water.

Because eugenol does not mix well with water, and because larger volumes are easier for hobbyists to measure out, it can be dosed using the following method:

1) Add 2 ml of eugenol to 100 ml of tank water in a sealed container and shake it vigorously.

2) Add 10 ml of this suspended solution to each gallon of water needed to euthanize the fish.

3) Place the fish in this solution and keep it covered to prevent it from jumping out and to help keep it calm.

4) Wait at least twenty minutes after it stops breathing, and then remove the fish from the solution and freeze it for later disposal.


Other methods
A variety of other methods have been proposed for the euthanasia of fishes, but none are fully accepted by veterinary experts. Still, home aquarists need more common tools to use, so those methods are listed here in roughly descending order of suitability:

Ethanol
Regular alcohol at a dose of 25 ml per liter will cause respiratory collapse and death in fishes within 30 minutes. The trouble is that alcohol is not available in pure form unless it has been “denatured” by the addition of distasteful chemicals such as turpentine. Vodka is about 40% alcohol by volume, so using it 62 ml per liter will give an effective dose.

Decapitation/pithing
Cutting a fish’s spinal cord, right behind the head, is a quick method of euthanasia that is approved for use in food fishes (where the use of chemicals would otherwise make the flesh unfit to eat). The issue is really that the method is distasteful for most people to do, so it is rarely used by aquarists. However, it is quick and effective.

Freezing
Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process.


An option of last resort
The animals in your aquariums are completely reliant on you for proper care. It is your responsibility to see to it that their lives in captivity are humane as possible and that all of their needs are met. If you cannot meet their needs, please find someone who is more able. Euthanasia should be considered only for health reasons, not because it is no longer convenient to care for an animal.

Jay

So I did fw dip to find some clue but it is like it's skin is peeling. Can it be coz of flukes? I am still waiting for it to stop eating but that is not happening. I hv shifted it to qt and doing again the same treatment for tail rot

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I did fw dip to find some clue but it is like it's skin is peeling. Can it be coz of flukes? I am still waiting for it to stop eating but that is not happening. I hv shifted it to qt and doing again the same treatment for tail rot

You often need to check the settled dip water with a microscope to see flukes, peeling skin may or may not be from flukes.
Jay

 

[KING KONG]

You often need to check the settled dip water with a microscope to see flukes, peeling skin may or may not be from flukes.
Jay

I hv seen under microscope now(had hard time to magnify). I also seen something black coloured thing. Sorry for bad pics.