Desjardini keeps getting worse.

[Kooma]

Hey guys,

This fish was a shutdown purchase and has gone through 30 days of 2.25 chelated copper, 3 doses of prazi 7 days apart and two doses of kanaplex 3 days apart.

I was monitoring him but is getting worse. At this point I need some help.






He had a couple Gil scrapes that I treated with kana, but since that has been developing spots on his sides and fins and today they look covered in fine sand.

The system had 7 other fish that were fine and moved out of QT, they still have no issues.

Is this bacterial? He is in a 60 gallon QT system, I am tempted to move him to a smaller QT and try kana again. He is currently a few days into a prazi dose to see if there’s lingering flukes or something.

Thoughts?

 

[Kooma]

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Is the fish eating?

 

[Kooma]

Yes eating fine. No abnormal behaviour

 

[mcarroll]

It is unclear to me so far why he's being treated with these meds – was he in this condition when you got him, or has this developed since QT began?

If it was like this before you got it, do you know why? I agree he doesn't look good, but have there been any corroborating signs of something pathogenic at work, such as behavior changes? Usually eating is the best sign, and I imagine that you'd have mentioned flashing, breathing at the top and other signs.

If there are no other signs and he's eating well, I'd back off the meds completely, put him in the best tankscape you can (lowest stress) and see if he starts to recover.

Do you have UV and/or micron filtration that you can deploy? @Paul B has an excellent DIY design for micron filtration if you don't have other options. A few Marineland filters take micron cartridges if they are available local to you.

 

[Kooma]

He was healthy however the yellow tang he came with developed ich and the whole group was placed in QT. He stuck around in QT due to the gill marks, and I was recommended a kanaplex treatment for those to prevent infection. This developed after the kanaplex was finished and has slowly worsened over the past week.

 

[Kooma]

My concerns is if this is something fungal or bacterial. I’m not placing him in a tank with rock or other fish until this has cleared up.

He eats well, swims well and has a thread fin butterfly in the QT with him that is unaffected. (Selling the butterfly).

I am doubtful given last night to this morning that no meds is the cure, but I’m open to opinions.

Currently I am mixing a bucket for a small and darker QT option seperate of this system to treat with kana. I also have fluconazole on hand if that doesn’t do anything for me.

He gets nori sheets daily and gobbles up PE mysis nightly. I also feed some flake in the morning.

 

[Kooma]

Water is 1.024, 77.8F. 15 nitrate, 0 ammonia based on badge and salifert test.

75% water change was done on the 3rd. Has been in a dose of prazi since the 4th.

 

[mcarroll]

He was healthy however the yellow tang he came with developed ich and the whole group was placed in QT. He stuck around in QT due to the gill marks, and I was recommended a kanaplex treatment for those to prevent infection. This developed after the kanaplex was finished and has slowly worsened over the past week.

If you know for sure it was ich, then micron filtration will be pretty effective without the nasty side effect of meds.

If the meds were doing anything, I don't think he'd still be getting worse.

If you were targeting something else besides Ich (which I'm not sure there are current signs of...y/n?)

The fact that there's nothing apparently wrong other than some markings AND he seems to be getting worse could definitely mean the meds are causing him enough stress that he's getting worse instead of better.

IMO there's no evidence of anything but ich, and that's in the past. Hedge the bet. Move him to another tank (regular plastic decorations, make it a little nice) with a good micron filter in case there is still ich (Cryptocaryon). A healthy, eating fish will beat ich as long as the swarmers are contained....just a matter of time. And unless you correct me, presently there's no actual evidence of swarmers....no breathing issues, no flashing, no salted skim look, etc. So if you go that route you have a safe bet with a good hedge IMO. Still might be a while before he joins the general population – that's your call. IMO forty days of solid recovery would be good enough for me, but a longer wait should be fine as long as the tank is nice, not too cramped or causing stress. Use your judgement on that part.

 

[Kooma]

He had a salted look around the lesions today

 

[mcarroll]

Maybe @Jay Hemdal will comment, but IMO those spots are just where the marks are healing – a good sign!!

IMO Crypto wouldn't cluster like that.

 

[BryanM]

#fishmedics

This is my favorite fish, I hope yours makes it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

He had a salted look around the lesions today

Unless there was some route for reinfection, ich is NOT an issue here. Prazi treatments sometimes allow flukes to get through due to timing issues, but I think this is secondary infections to skin injuries - hitting things because it only has one eye, or from the previous ich or fluke infections.
I’d try Neoplex on it myself.

This post is why I prefer not to handle fish issues by PM - it gets too complicated for me to have two different threads open on the same case.

I was letting @vetteguy53081 handle your PM to us because I had a medical procedure yesterday, and just wasn’t up to it.

 

[Fish Fan]

I had a medical procedure yesterday, and just wasn’t up to it.

I'm sorry to hear this, but I wish you a quick recovery!

 

[Kooma]

Unless there was some route for reinfection, ich is NOT an issue here. Prazi treatments sometimes allow flukes to get through due to timing issues, but I think this is secondary infections to skin injuries - hitting things because it only has one eye, or from the previous ich or fluke infections.
I’d try Neoplex on it myself.

This post is why I prefer not to handle fish issues by PM - it gets too complicated for me to have two different threads open on the same case.

I was letting @vetteguy53081 handle your PM to us because I had a medical procedure yesterday, and just wasn’t up to it.

No problem! With his condition worsening I am just looking for next steps at this point and understand people get busy.

The more input on an issue, I feel the better odds there are.

I don’t have neo on hand unfortunately but have him in a kana bath at normal strength. 30 minutes in there and back into the QT, I’ll see how he is in the morning and update.

I agree, it seems bacterial, possibly fungal, and my butterfly with him is completely unaffected.

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

I’ve seen something Ike this pop up on certain fish like kole in a crowded system. If the fish is still feeding we would throw them into a system with nitro and they immediately heal up

 

[Kooma]

I’ve seen something Ike this pop up on certain fish like kole in a crowded system. If the fish is still feeding we would throw them into a system with nitro and they immediately heal up

Help me out, what is nitro?

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Nitrofurazone

 

[mcarroll]

Help me out, what is nitro?

Gotta know the lingo if you want to be one of the cool kids! LOL

Sometimes it makes me I'm surprised my eyeballs haven't rolled out of my head on some days.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No problem! With his condition worsening I am just looking for next steps at this point and understand people get busy.

The more input on an issue, I feel the better odds there are.

I don’t have neo on hand unfortunately but have him in a kana bath at normal strength. 30 minutes in there and back into the QT, I’ll see how he is in the morning and update.

I agree, it seems bacterial, possibly fungal, and my butterfly with him is completely unaffected.

External Fungal infections are very rare in marine fish - they have a grayer look to them.

Kanamycin works on some bacteria, but without doing sensitivity studies, there is no real way to tell what antibiotic will work. There is a risk of treatment jumping - trying one antibiotic, and if it doesn’t work in a few days, jumping to another one, etc. I think you gave kanamycin enough time to work though. There are people who advocate using multiple antibiotics at one time - but that is risky due to drug interactions.