Did my boxfish nuke?

[Charles2465]

Hi there so I have 2 box fish in seperate tanks at the moment. I'm based in South Africa and they come down in the summer and die in the winter. I've owned about 4 before with no issues but now I've had 2 fish die and I'm not sure if it is my black box fish (Ostracion meleagris) or not. He initially had whitespot straight from the ocean likely due to some cold water coming in, he was in really shallow water likely seeking warmth. He also showed other signs of having washed in from the cold. I had an Pomacanthus rhomboides which died the next morning. This may be due to me having to put copper in or because I wanted the box fish to get into the tank as soon as possible because stress was the biggest factor. I'd also had someone say that he had one die in a bucket along with the other fish. He is doing fine and started eating well. I do find the store bought ones are very finiky but these guys are doing well. I later caught a juvinile chaetodon auriga similar to the angel fish he died the next day. Althought it could be due to stress.

So begs the question. Is it possible that he nuked the tank twice and survived himself? Or is it more likely that the other dish died from other causes. He is the size of about 2 grapes (not sure if that makes a big difference on how much toxin he can secrete). I did do a good water change inbetween but only once. He now has a sergeant major damsel fish as a buddy but he seems to be having no issues. He continues to be doing better each day and now is eating pellets.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi there so I have 2 box fish in seperate tanks at the moment. I'm based in South Africa and they come down in the summer and die in the winter. I've owned about 4 before with no issues but now I've had 2 fish die and I'm not sure if it is my black box fish (Ostracion meleagris) or not. He initially had whitespot straight from the ocean likely due to some cold water coming in, he was in really shallow water likely seeking warmth. He also showed other signs of having washed in from the cold. I had an Pomacanthus rhomboides which died the next morning. This may be due to me having to put copper in or because I wanted the box fish to get into the tank as soon as possible because stress was the biggest factor. I'd also had someone say that he had one die in a bucket along with the other fish. He is doing fine and started eating well. I do find the store bought ones are very finiky but these guys are doing well. I later caught a juvinile chaetodon auriga similar to the angel fish he died the next day. Althought it could be due to stress.

So begs the question. Is it possible that he nuked the tank twice and survived himself? Or is it more likely that the other dish died from other causes. He is the size of about 2 grapes (not sure if that makes a big difference on how much toxin he can secrete). I did do a good water change inbetween but only once. He now has a sergeant major damsel fish as a buddy but he seems to be having no issues. He continues to be doing better each day and now is eating pellets.

That’s tough to say.

Certainly that is one species of boxfish that has been known to release toxins when stressed. Most cases I’ve had were with freshly caught boxfish - once they reach pet stores, the risk is less. However, yours is fresher because you caught it yourself, right?

However, most cases of poisoning is seen when the boxfish is really stressed, and the tank water will become foamy and all fish, including the boxfish usually die.

 

[Charles2465]

Hi there so I have 2 box fish in seperate tanks at the moment. I'm based in South Africa and they come down in the summer and die in the winter. I've owned about 4 before with no issues but now I've had 2 fish die and I'm not sure if it is my black box fish (Ostracion meleagris) or not. He initially had whitespot straight from the ocean likely due to some cold water coming in, he was in really shallow water likely seeking warmth. He also showed other signs of having washed in from the cold. I had an Pomacanthus rhomboides which died the next morning. This may be due to me having to put copper in or because I wanted the box fish to get into the tank as soon as possible because stress was the biggest factor. I'd also had someone say that he had one die in a bucket along with the other fish. He is doing fine and started eating well. I do find the store bought ones are very finiky but these guys are doing well. I later caught a juvinile chaetodon auriga similar to the angel fish he died the next day. Althought it could be due to stress.

So begs the question. Is it possible that he nuked the tank twice and survived himself? Or is it more likely that the other dish died from other causes. He is the size of about 2 grapes (not sure if that makes a big difference on how much toxin he can secrete). I did do a good water change inbetween but only once. He now has a sergeant major damsel fish as a buddy but he seems to be having no issues. He continues to be doing better each day and now is eating pellets.

That’s tough to say.

Certainly that is one species of boxfish that has been known to release toxins when stressed. Most cases I’ve had were with freshly caught boxfish - once they reach pet stores, the risk is less. However, yours is fresher because you caught it yourself, right?

However, most cases of poisoning is seen when the boxfish is really stressed, and the tank water will become foamy and all fish, including the boxfish usually die.

Thanks for the reply
Yes indeed I caught it myself.
I've also heard that the black boxy has been the more common culprit. I got a yellow boxy caught by a friend and he hasn't caused issues but he was the size of a pea initially.
Yea it's a bit hard to say since the box fish did not die itself althought it is a bit more resistant.

 

[Charles2465]

Hi there so I have 2 box fish in seperate tanks at the moment. I'm based in South Africa and they come down in the summer and die in the winter. I've owned about 4 before with no issues but now I've had 2 fish die and I'm not sure if it is my black box fish (Ostracion meleagris) or not. He initially had whitespot straight from the ocean likely due to some cold water coming in, he was in really shallow water likely seeking warmth. He also showed other signs of having washed in from the cold. I had an Pomacanthus rhomboides which died the next morning. This may be due to me having to put copper in or because I wanted the box fish to get into the tank as soon as possible because stress was the biggest factor. I'd also had someone say that he had one die in a bucket along with the other fish. He is doing fine and started eating well. I do find the store bought ones are very finiky but these guys are doing well. I later caught a juvinile chaetodon auriga similar to the angel fish he died the next day. Althought it could be due to stress.

So begs the question. Is it possible that he nuked the tank twice and survived himself? Or is it more likely that the other dish died from other causes. He is the size of about 2 grapes (not sure if that makes a big difference on how much toxin he can secrete). I did do a good water change inbetween but only once. He now has a sergeant major damsel fish as a buddy but he seems to be having no issues. He continues to be doing better each day and now is eating pellets.

That’s tough to say.

Certainly that is one species of boxfish that has been known to release toxins when stressed. Most cases I’ve had were with freshly caught boxfish - once they reach pet stores, the risk is less. However, yours is fresher because you caught it yourself, right?

However, most cases of poisoning is seen when the boxfish is really stressed, and the tank water will become foamy and all fish, including the boxfish usually die.

Out of interest sake
Could you describe what experiences you've had with the box fish releasing toxins? Was it in a tank or bucket? How fast was the time between healthy and death? And was there any symptoms?
I've also been told they can still effect a fish tank if the box fish dies for another reason and the body is left in too long without taking it out

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Out of interest sake
Could you describe what experiences you've had with the box fish releasing toxins? Was it in a tank or bucket? How fast was the time between healthy and death? And was there any symptoms?
I've also been told they can still effect a fish tank if the box fish dies for another reason and the body is left in too long without taking it out

The only instances where I know it was boxfish toxin were on a collecting boat, where somebody who didn’t know about them put them in with other fish. I’ve never had one nuke a tank, but I would often keep them singly. I’ve kept various Australian boxfish/cowfish in mixed species tanks and never had any issues.
I’ve heard that when they die, they can release toxins, but I’ve not seen it myself.

 

[oxo]

sorry about the fish you lost. the acedemic literature on pahutoxin suggests boxfish are resistant, but not immune, to their own secretions. it binds specifically to receptors in the gills and prolonged contact with it (an aquarium) should still damage them. even at low concentrations its fast-acting and non-boxfish fish would probably be dying synchronously within hours, not days.

a lot of the studies i’ve read had to induce pahutoxin release by putting them in distilled water, so i think it’s not guaranteed for boxfish to just do it when they’re caught, unless he put up a fight and got really stressed out. it seems they reserve it for life-threatening situations.

i haven’t seen any evidence that they secrete pahutoxin while dead. at my store we’ve had countless boxs and cows pass away in our QT or display systems over the years and have never seen deaths after.