Difficult to keep fish, should we even keep them?

[W31Olds]

I don't think keeping a fish for its entire Lifespan is the only measure of success. If that were true, most Hobbyists could never reach that goal. Coral Reefs are very stable places, something that is nearly impossible to maintain in a home Aquarium for years on end. There are simply too many outside factors that are failure points when running a Home Aquarium. If my Morrish Idol lives 5 years and my Clownfish lives 10 I consider that a success. Sure, I'd like to do better, but sometimes pets pass due to reasons beyond our control.

 

[ScottF]

I think it depends on your definition of "difficult to keep fish". Some consider CBB and morish idol to be difficult. Mine are fat and healthy. Some classify mandarins as difficult, but they are the easiest fish in the world to keep if your tank can support them.

 

[Savage Henry]

Another thing you might consider in terms of the length of time one can maintain a fish in a home aquarium is, do you compare it with the maximum age a fish can reach or the average age a fish can reach.

If it the average age, many of our fish would have outlived those in the wild.

Then there’s that other question: should we compare our fish’s life spans with the maximum life span in captivity rather than the maximum lifespan in the wild?

 

[Reef_Aquatics]

I’d say common aquarium sharks, rays, eels, and groupers are all easy to keep. I have now or have had them.

Fish like these take extra planning, and of course water volume.

I 100% agree that giants like Goliath grouper, black tip sharks, giant eels, etc. shouldn’t be available to the average aquarist. And on top of that, it’s the shops responsibility to make sure the fish goes to a good home, like guppy Goliath was able to provide

Agreed. I think that people who keep more difficult fish should at least have the knowledge and experience to do so.

 

[1969iggy]

The golden trevally are captive raised for the food industry and some bright guy got the idea to divert some of those to the pet trade. They quickly grow to 100 cm and top out at about 120 cm! There are public aquariums that can't handle them at that size.....

So if they are raised for food, can you raise it for fun, until it's too big, and then eat it? I go fishing somewhat frequently and love eating fish. Is it wrong to raise your own? Being from an area where i know farmers who raise animals for food, it's not an obscene thought to me, but i'm sure many in this forum would recoil at the idea of raising fish in an aquarium with the idea that it doesn't get re-homed, it gets repurposed for dinner.

I know this is off topic, but would be interested in people's thoughts.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I know my limits and lifestyle, and stay in my lane with fish. However, to some folks, keeping a clownfish might be difficult. It is totally subjective to the Reefer, and not necessarily tied to a species with regard to difficulty. Given enough money, time, and motivation, the impossible can become possible.
If someone has the means to care for a fish, then I don’t see a reason to gate keep just because others can’t. Now if we are talking about a list of fish that beginner Reefers should stay away from, I completely understand that.

 

[CBonito]

I think everyone has enough basic common sense and simple deductive reasoning to understand that if you don't have a 5000 gallon tank with a cool surge system, lots of sustainable food and highly oxygenated water, then you probably can't keep a school of achilles tangs without them becoming diseased, neurotic psychopaths.

If I got pulled off my farm and put into a 500 sq/ft box with a 1 car garage and a postage stamp of grass out back, I would become diseased and neurotic too. Trust me.

 

[n3ttst3r]

honestly because most are wild caught there’s a lot that should be “left to the experts and professionals” 9.9/10 it’s those experts and professionals who will figure out how to keep those things in captivity longer term and not random Midwest Joe with a 3 month old tank and too much money burning a hole in his wallet. Once it’s established how to keep them relatively healthy for a meaningful duration of time and their lifespan in captivity is extended and we have a general consensus on care that can be replicated? Yea sure, but until then it’s a lot of needless death of animals that could be living and reproducing in the wild reefs and waters and not wasting away in a tank just because it looks neat.

 

[Cheese Griller]

I’ve had plenty of extremely difficult fish. Many were on Jay’s list.

I walked into owning my stingray basically blind when it comes to how hard they can be to get eating etc. luckily for me he ate right away. Same with my moorish idol, etc.

I can say for certain if I didn’t get these healthy specimens I would not have them today.

You disprove your own point here- they luckily ate for you right away. With difficult to keep fish luck is one of the most important variables. Getting healthy specimens is paramount, but there are certain fish that are truly luck of the draw (at least superficially, I’m sure there are variables out there that we are unaware of).

 

[BryanM]

One of the benefits of this hobby is the number of different fish we can keep in our reef tanks. Even though there are a lot of relatively easy fish to keep, such as clownfish, there are also difficult-to-keep fish like Moorish Idols. As reef keepers, should we refrain from these more difficult-to-keep fish, or should we embrace the challenge? Curious to hear what everyone says!

I would vote keep, but definitely with a plan.

I personally try to avoid fish with known issues, this hobby is hard enough, I don't need to add to the difficulty.

 

[W31Olds]

The "Experts" in most cases manage large Public Aquariums or Breeding Facilities. They may learn some of the behavior and feeding techniques for difficult fish that can apply to Hobbyists, but a home Aquarium does not replicate the same environment, and the Hobbyist also often cannot supply the specialized diet.

 

[fishguy777]

You disprove your own point here- they luckily ate for you right away. With difficult to keep fish luck is one of the most important variables. Getting healthy specimens is paramount, but there are certain fish that are truly luck of the draw (at least superficially, I’m sure there are variables out there that we are unaware of).

Not at all. Luckily ate for me meant I luckily picked healthy specimens.

It wasn’t because of luck they ate, rather because they were healthy

 

[Cheese Griller]

Not at all. Luckily ate for me meant I luckily picked healthy specimens.

It wasn’t because of luck they ate, rather because they were healthy

Even healthy specimens of difficult to keep species refuse food, so it is lucky that yours ate. If it were as simple as choosing healthy specimens, this debate wouldn't exist.

 

[fishguy777]

Even healthy specimens of difficult to keep species refuse food, so it is lucky that yours ate. If it were as simple as choosing healthy specimens, this debate wouldn't exist.

Sorta agree with you there. Maybe I should add stable too.

My blue spotted ribbontail ray ate 5 minutes into being in the tank.
Achilles tang ate 2 hours being in tank
Moorish idol ate 20 minutes being in tank.

These examples scream healthy and stable fish. It is no coincidence that I was very successful with these specimens

 

[56longroof]

I consider myself lucky so far. I have a Ornate,Choati,and yellow choris(Halichoeres)going on a year. All fat and healthy. Hopefully continues. Just picked up a Venustus angelfish. Been slow going but it's starting to come around. It eats good just painfully shy.I think it helps to have alot of natural food in the tank for them. I probably have put in 20,000 amphipods so far and countless other pods. This definitely helps with the leopard wrasses. 2 of the 3 hid for over a month each.

 

[Rach77]

Great topic.

I think a related topic is who should be allowed to keep fish.

This applies to any captive animals, whether it be a domesticated animal or a wild animal.

Have you ever been in a LFS and witnessed a customer say, “I want that one and that one and yeah one of those ones as well”? I saw it not long ago and the salesperson did try to moderate the customer a little but still sold the customer what they wanted. The customer was like a kid in a candy store.

But back to your topic, it’s really difficult when it comes to fish being kept by expert hobbyists (I don’t consider myself one). Yes, they can maintain excellent parameters and keep a relatively suitable bio space, but it is always going to be like taking a piece of ocean and keeping a full size fish in a miniaturised environment. Even tangs kept in a 1000 gallon tank are miniaturised. Even a single damselfish kept in a 1000 gallon tank is miniaturised. All of these fish in nature would swim about covering areas much larger volumes of water than 1000 gallons. I’ve watched pairs of five inch wrasses do figure 8s over a thirty square foot area. I’ve watched the same sized catfish congregate together to form a colum about twelve foot high.

The fish are never going to be able to do all that they do in nature.

Having said that, in the right hands they can live long lives and even breed.

It’s a really tough question. I would advocate for there being a list of fish that are limited to expert hobbyists and a list of fish for experienced hobbyists and above and a list of fish for beginners and above and a list of criteria people should meet before they can keep a fish.

Couldn't have said this better. You should really care about the life that you chose to care for....
Do your research!!!!

 

[fishguy777]

just bought a princess parrotfish. Ate great in the store, said they had it for a month.

Most don’t do well in captivity, adding to the “shouldn’t buy” list. However I’m feeling good about this lil guy and will keep updated with his success. This further aligns with my point that healthy specimens are all it takes for success

Even healthy specimens of difficult to keep species refuse food, so it is lucky that yours ate. If it were as simple as choosing healthy specimens, this debate wouldn't exist.

 

[Cheese Griller]

just bought a princess parrotfish. Ate great in the store, said they had it for a month.

Most don’t do well in captivity, adding to the “shouldn’t buy” list. However I’m feeling good about this lil guy and will keep updated with his success. This further aligns with my point that healthy specimens are all it takes for success

It's not "all it takes" though. That's a completely one-dimensional view of the issue. Some fish are more difficult to keep than others. Just because you have anecdotally had success doesn't negate that fact.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The other issue is that fish like that are ferocious hunters. What could you put it with?

They are fairly peaceful with larger fish, those too large for them to eat. They will try and chase some medium sized fish, but really, the issue is how huge they can get.

 

[draj]

talk me out of a sixline