dinoflagellates and cycle question.

[rajkovich207]

Hey all! So my tank has been cycling for some three weeks now. The ammonia has been at 0ppm for about a week now, and nitrate is about 20. BUT, my nitrites have been reading off the chart (ie over 5ppm) with no change in color for about a week and a half now. I cycled the tank with dry rock/sand and 2/3rd bottle of dr. tims one and only and no fish, and total water volume is 31 gallons, that is with the rock and sand already accounted for. I originally brought up the ammonia to read 1ppm with my API test kit using frozen mysis and brine shrimp. Now this isnt my first tank, but ive never had a cycle like this before (I always used LR for the cycle) did I manage to some how freeze the cycle? Or are the nitrites just sooooo off the chart I am not able to see any change in color on the test kit, even though I started with only 1ppm of ammonia?

Next, I had a CRAZY bad diatom out break, or so I believed. 3 days ago I switched my MJ1200 to the other side of the tank (it has the hydor rotating nozzle and I liked the flow on the other side better) and it blasts several of the rocks, to the point where it blew off all of the diatoms. Now since saterday my tank has been Very cloudy. I changed the filter sock yesterday (cutting my finger on a baffle to the point where I just about needed stitches lol) and figured I would leave the lights on and see what happens. After the tank was lit for about 7 hours it was completely cleared, but I had very short (ranging from about 1/16" to about 5/8" long) brown strands with a single bubble on the end. after the lights came back on this morning the tank was all cloudy again, and it appears that the algae strands are gone... oh:


Could this be dinos? and if so, should I wait untill the cycle is finished before I treat with H2O2 since it has an impact on the cycle? or is it ok if I do the dose mid cycle?

Thank you so much everyone for any help given, and I apologize for the 3 page long question lol.
happy reefing! Tony

 

[rajkovich207]

correction: there are still some of those strands of algae while the water is cloudy, but there seem to be less of them. Also the cloudy water looks "white" to the eye, and not brown. Not sure if that makes a difference.

*the H2O2 has an impact on the bacteria, not the cycle*

 

[impur]

Hey man, hows it going?? Not good it sounds like Is this in your biocube? If not how is that tank doing??

I think you stalled the cycle by not providing enough ammonia in the beginning.

And your description sure sounds like dinos. But since this tank is new with no livestock, I would just let things ride on out and see if they clear up on their own.

 

[rajkovich207]

Yes sadly it is my biocube, and my sole fish is on his way out in the holding tank it looks like, I think it was a bacterial infection :'( I haven't had very good luck in this hobby, but can't seem to give it up. What can I do to help along the cycle? And should I throw in some purigen to help cut things down some?

 

[rajkovich207]

Bump for further opinions as I am still unsure of what to do about the "stalled" cycle.

 

[robert]

Yes likely a small outbreak of dinos...

I just finished a cycle on a new 40 gallon - not really a cube but close - no sump or skimmer -RFUGF, UV and a canister filter.

I set up my aqua-scape with live rock filled the tank and added ~1/4 cup of 36% H2O2 - this killed everything - I let the tank fizz for 8 hours and did a major water change - probably close to 90%.
I next added ~1 gram or so of ammonium nitrate - 4 mls of sodium nitrate (6-0-0) and ~1 ml of Phosphate 0-4-0. Upped the tank temp to 85 and let it go.
I added no bacterial starter.
After 2 weeks - the diatoms were going full force - it looked like everything was coated with coaco powder. I stirred the substrate, and blew off the rock work - letting the canister collect the diatoms.
To clear the water, I use a bentonite clay emulsion. Works pretty well - gets the white cloudiness out fairly quickly.
After the second week, the ammonia began to drop and nitrites climbed and the diatoms coated everything daily.
At week three - the ammonia was totally gone - the nitrites were dropping- at this point I got a bit of dino on what looked like short brown algae filaments,
I did a 30% water change and waited one more week. - After the water change - the diatoms and dino simply disappeared.

At week four, I experimented with a few corals - they seemed fine - so I added a few fish - waited a day or two to see what would happen - all looked good so I gave it a light phosphate dose, a bit of white vinegar and loaded it up.
I have not cleaned my canister filter at all. The rockwork/substrate is sparkling clean and the chemistry is where I want it in a new system. Slightly elevated nitrate - slightly elevated phosphate. Little organic carbon.

I've don't use bacterial additives - I've never found them necessary or particularly helpful as the bacteria you want to establish in an initial cycle are autotrophic and slow growing. Most additives are hetrotrophic, require an organic carbon source and tend to boom and bust.

While some will disagree with me - I add a small amount of phosphate to the cycle. This eliminates any potential "phosphate block" and helps the bacterial base establish faster. Again I make an concerted effort to keep the organic carbon out of the system in order to favor the establishment of autotrophic bacteria.

I wouldn't be bothered about the dinos or diatoms - they are a good sign - if anything I'd feed them a little more - really get the ammonia up there - and after it clears(nitrites too) - do a partial to get the nitrates where you want them.

 

[rajkovich207]

Awesome thank you so much! I will start to raise the ammonia again tomorrow. Thank you so much!

 

[robert]

No problem -

If you want ammonium nitrate - get one of those cold packs they sell at the pharmacy. The type with a little packet of water inside that you break to make it go cold.
Without breaking the water bag, cut open the pack and you'll find a chemical. It will look like little white balls. This is ammonium nitrate.

A singler layer of the beads pushed together into an area about the size of a penny is about half a gram. That should be more than ample to get the ammonium levels up to where you want them. (Add half - test - and if needed add the rest.)

You really don't have to be too exact. Much faster than the shrimp approach.

 

[impur]

Yah I would also start by increasing ammonia to 3-5ppm, but do not go over 5ppm. For another source, I'm using this ammonia to cycle a 40B with Dr Tims one and only. I started on saturday. I got this ammonia at True Value hardware store, its 100% ammonia chloride. No surfactants

 

[rajkovich207]

Alight cool! Our true value closed down I believe, but I hear you can get the stuff from ace hardware so ill have to make a trip there!

 

[impur]

If they don't the way to tell is that when you shake it if it fizzes and gets foam on top its got surfactants in it.

Hey did you get the lights worked out ok?

 

[rajkovich207]

Yea they are amazing. The drivers hummed and buzzed a bit so Acer a few emails and some testing with an ohms meter ray sent me 2 new drivers! I like them alot and can't wait to see some corals under it! And awesome thanks for the info!

 

[impur]

Good deal, Ray is a nice guy. I hope you get things squared away and get corals in there soon as well

 

[rajkovich207]

As do I my friend! I haven't lost faith in this tank yet lol. Ace has been moved to tomorrow. I do have a build thread on here as well so if you ever get curious check it out! Its still a baby now but it will be as long as some of the big boys threads lol. I check in on yours every now and then. Hows it doing?

 

[impur]

Cool i'm gonna go find your thread now Yah just keep the faith you will get things sorted out.

Mine is doing just awesome. I'm doing weekly ~3gal WCs and thats it as far as maintenance. I am really digging it. I got some snowflake clowns in it now too they are sweet!