Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[reddog]

Dino still in full effect in my tank.

I'm going with amphidinium now. First two images are dino in my tank. They don't look anything like ostreopsis. Dino X will be here in a day or so. The second to last picture is a chart of amphidinium with my dino on the left side. Last picture is a chart of ostreopsis.

 

[domination2580]

Dino still in full effect in my tank.

I'm going with amphidinium now. First two images are dino in my tank. They don't look anything like ostreopsis. Dino X will be here in a day or so. The second to last picture is a chart of amphidinium with my dino on the left side. Last picture is a chart of ostreopsis.

Almost look like b or f

 

[reddog]

Almost look like b or f

I agree

 

[taricha]

I started my Dino battle with what I think were ostreopsis several months ago. Now I have something that doesn't really look like ostreopsis and I can really only find them when looking at samples of green algae.

Anyone help ID this? This is 400x magnification.

It's an amphidinium.
Lots of amphidinium in this thread lately. For those who had ostreopsis and it later disappeared to be replaced by amphidinium - would like to hear reports of what you did?

Ostreopsis is pretty much the most toxic, and amphidinium non-toxic or very very low toxicity.

 

[Victoria M]

just a quick search pulled up many sites stating that amphidinium is fish toxic and mammals. Reddog, can you pull your fish out of the DT and place them in a hospital tank?

 

[BoneXriffic]

What I'm guessing happened was you did have an ammonia spike from all the bacteria that got killed from bleach, hence the spike in nitrates. After you dose you will see brown snot everywhere but unless you confirm under scope they are living than they all should be dead...

This could be coupled with a higher than normal bioload maybe?

I admit my tank was not heavily stocked or fed....but 3months of dosing and it had no issue. Granted bacteria died....but was still maintaining....my nitrates stayed under 10 throughout

 

[BoneXriffic]

just a quick search pulled up many sites stating that amphidinium is fish toxic and mammals. Reddog, can you pull your fish out of the DT and place them in a hospital tank?

If the bleach was rupturing these cells could it be possible that the dinos killed his fush as a result?

 

[reddog]

I'm confident that dinos are a lot more common than people are making them out to be (whether visible or not). I have a lightly active dino situation in my display tank. I have transferred rock and frags from this tank to my frag tank and within a day or so any visible dinos are gone from the items that were moved. They literally disappear in my frag tank. Poof, gone, even under microscope. Anyone that has gotten frags from me that were in my dino tank has never seen dinos after putting my stuff in their tank... It's a perfect storm for these things to take over.

I moved over some SPS frags to a 29 gallon tank to try and save a few frags. I only dipped one of them in freshwater and I have been elbow deep in both tanks with the same water on my arms. So far no signs of dino in the 29 gallon. I'm was assuming it's because there's no sand or "food" for the dino in the 29 gallon.

 

[reddog]

What I'm guessing happened was you did have an ammonia spike from all the bacteria that got killed from bleach, hence the spike in nitrates. After you dose you will see brown snot everywhere but unless you confirm under scope they are living than they all should be dead...

I don't really see any "brown snot". Just a few flat patches here and there. It's kinda red looking with barely any visible bubbles. Mainly sits on dead spots on my SPS corals and a few spots in the sand. Definitely not dead.

 

[reddog]

just a quick search pulled up many sites stating that amphidinium is fish toxic and mammals. Reddog, can you pull your fish out of the DT and place them in a hospital tank?

Unfortunately, I think that's my next step. I have a 125 that's empty in the garage. I'm going to move it in the house and move the fish over, after I do a quick freshwater dip on all of them.

 

[reddog]

It's an amphidinium.
Lots of amphidinium in this thread lately. For those who had ostreopsis and it later disappeared to be replaced by amphidinium - would like to hear reports of what you did?

Ostreopsis is pretty much the most toxic, and amphidinium non-toxic or very very low toxicity.

I tried the following: many different bacteria products, vibrant, pods, live phyto, antibiotic (almost crashed my tank), more bacteria, ran "micro bubbles" at night, coral snow product at night with 10 micron socks, then then ended up dosing bleach as a last resort (this killed 3 fish). It's possible that I didn't test my nitrates again after the antibiotic and already had horribly high nitrates. It's just been a cluster ****. I'm so tired of this. Looks like reset is the only option at this point.

 

[reddog]

This could be coupled with a higher than normal bioload maybe?

I admit my tank was not heavily stocked or fed....but 3months of dosing and it had no issue. Granted bacteria died....but was still maintaining....my nitrates stayed under 10 throughout

I had not used the multi-quote thing yet. Just figured it out.

Prior to all of this crap I had nitrates of about 10. I did dose an antibiotic because I thought I might have vibrio causing my SPS to die. This killed a ton of my bacteria population and caused a bloom, which almost took down my tank. So I probably did have a huge nitrate problem prior to dosing the bleach.

If the bleach was rupturing these cells could it be possible that the dinos killed his fush as a result?

Unless most of it isn't visible, I don't have a ton of visible dino in the tank. Just a few patches here and there.

 

[BoneXriffic]

I had not used the multi-quote thing yet. Just figured it out.

Prior to all of this crap I had nitrates of about 10. I did dose an antibiotic because I thought I might have vibrio causing my SPS to die. This killed a ton of my bacteria population and caused a bloom, which almost took down my tank. So I probably did have a huge nitrate problem prior to dosing the bleach.



Unless most of it isn't visible, I don't have a ton of visible dino in the tank. Just a few patches here and there.

Seems you may have double did your bacteria i guess. A bad combo i suppose...this should def be noted for further testing... also bleach doesnt mix with so many things.

I think had you not had these issues and were able to dose for a longer period that your dinos would be gone. Jus an opinion though

 

[Victoria M]

I think removing the fish, doing a few larger water changes, and some carbon for a day or two, and then restart bleach dosing is worth a try prior to restarting the whole tank.

 

[Victoria M]

If the bleach was rupturing these cells could it be possible that the dinos killed his fush as a result?

It is hard to say. I think it is safe to say that the fish are just very stressed from everything that has been going on in the tank and that the best course of action is to remove the fish during the next phase of treatment. I think when you start putting something like bleach in your aquarium you are hoping it kills the " pathogen" before it kills the desirable life.

 

[BoneXriffic]

It is hard to say. I think it is safe to say that the fish are just very stressed from everything that has been going on in the tank and that the best course of action is to remove the fish during the next phase of treatment. I think when you start putting something like bleach in your aquarium you are hoping it kills the " pathogen" before it kills the desirable life.

Perhaps, but i had longterm success...alot of variables though...

If you consider, we often drink and inhale bleach regularly to no ill effect. However if we drank or inhaled to much we die. Like most things, safe in moderation

 

[Victoria M]

Perhaps, but i had longterm success...alot of variables though...

I am glad that you and others have had success, but it is the variables in this particular situation that lead me to think this person should remove the fish and continue the bleach treatment.

 

[Victoria M]

If you consider, we often drink and inhale bleach regularly to no ill effect. However if we drank or inhaled to much we die. Like most things, safe in moderation

LOL. to say we drink chlorinated water and can smell bleach is not the same thing as drinking and inhaling bleach. NO drinking of bleach people!!!

 

[Paullawr]

@reddog

Go with the restart. I did. Not looked back. After a few years of winning battles but ultimately losing the war with them a full restart was the only real cure.

I didn't transfer anything other than two bumblebee snails and my remaining two clowns after being in quarantine a few weeks.

Everything else was new.

Here's what I did.

Dry sand.
Probiotic salt by reefflowers.
Marco rock
Synthetic bacterial cultured rock.

Bleached Marco rock 4 times for 48 hours. Replacing bucket of water each time.
Rinsed a dozen times or so then let sit for 24 hours in fresh water to ensure chlorine had burnt off.
Rinsed sand thoroughly until clear. Took ages but got there.

Setup tank how I liked

Next thing I did was add microbacter 7 along with a ceramic block to help retain culture.

Dosed mb7 for four weeks. During this time I saw no algae at all. Despite being blasted by my Radion.

Added a culture of amipods and copepods.
Fed the critters for a further three weeks.
Tested params - absolutely on the money.

Introduced fish.

Continued dosing mb7 and now additionally prodibo.

Amipods during the three weeks of basically residing in a large refugium reproduced like it was 1945.

They were on mass.

What I like about amipods is how super efficient they are at consuming food. Most people rarely see it. But they will learn the tank is safe with lights on and will be happily about.
Add food and watch. They are out like a rat up a drain pipe.
Carry off the food and it's gone. In seconds. Faster than any clean up crew.
Added bonus is the consume algae and yes I've read the will eat protists. They are far higher up the food chain than even copepods and due to size they grow will put off smaller fish from snacking on them.

Still algae free 6 months on and no sign of anything swimming in circular motions!!!!!

 

[Paullawr]

If the bleach was rupturing these cells could it be possible that the dinos killed his fush as a result?

I'd say the bleach killed the fish. Chlorine effects the gills by blocking cells that carry oxygen. It's basically death from asphyxiation.

CBBs are ridiculously sensitive to water chemistry. A Ph swing can kill them.
I wouldn't even put damsels in that situation.