Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[Fr4nkthet4nk]

We need to get bulkreefsupply involved. They need to investigate dinoflagellates.

I asked them to get on it and they answer they will make a video about it.

 

[taricha]

My microscope results from today, I search for brown stuff on my rocks and take a sample, there are still some brown stains on the rocks but its not forming strings like before and my rock look more purple every day becouse of coraline but still can see dinos under the microscope, only dont know what kind, they dont move anymore, I hope they are not ostreopsis cysts.
Here some videos, sorry for a bad quality.
What do you think?

Looks like good news. Osti resting cysts that I've seen have smooth double-thick wall. Those look like they have deep grooves unlike resting cysts.
Are those straight off the rock, and onto a slide? They look quite dead and motionless, some seem to be losing partial pigmentation. Assume nothing, keep watching, but that looks good.

 

[Jolanta]

Yes they are straight from the rock to a microscope, they really look without any movement but the strange thing is if they are death becouse they are still there? the place was clean few days ago so they need to be alive to apear in new place Seeing some videos in youtube they look like coolia or what do you think?

 

[illumnae]

I have a couple of questions:

1. How "fresh" does the water need to be to kill dinos? Will hyposalinity @ 1.009 (similar to what we use to QT against ich) work?

2. Has anyone tried Chloroquine phosphate treatment to kill dinos? It's supposed to work against velvet, plus it's an algaecide.

 

[Paullawr]

What it looks like under the scope can be deceiving, and bunches of things kill dinos in a tiny controlled setup like that.
You can kill dinos under the scope with a couple of drops of:
Bleach, peroxide, vibrant, fresh water, miracle grow, vinegar, ammonia etc....
Of those, bleach looks the least impressive, but is the deadliest, and fresh water looks the most devastating, but is the least helpful in a real tank.

I'm confident a sterilizer tablet will kill them, but it just sounds like another tank nuke to me. Maybe I'm missing the point.

Agree in small quantities on miscrope dish, just a drop of h20 is enough.
Simply because the ratio is all wrong.

I'm pretty certain our friend bmwm235i is aware of this so will test proportionately.
If he has a bit of funky sand left maybe put that in a separate container and test the two.

As for nuking tanks. Well until some reef safe additive pops up or we strike it lucky with out completion (which is nearly always too late by this stage) I see no other way.

Consider this if you will. My current tank free from this menace (for now) was formed from a sterile environment and all bacteria and zooplankton was introduced deliberately in my requirement.

I think most are opting for this reboot of sorts.

Could be, could not be. Here we are 300 pages and 90% of the posts are just words. No one is actually doing anything. I do not have a scope, I'll be looking for that wonderful brown slime on the sand in the external container. If it's gone then these tabs need some more conversation if not well I'll have some extra sterlization tabs to bring with me on the hiking trips that I do not go on.

Agree action and tests are also needed amongst hypothesis and investigation.

I have a couple of questions:

1. How "fresh" does the water need to be to kill dinos? Will hyposalinity @ 1.009 (similar to what we use to QT against ich) work?

2. Has anyone tried Chloroquine phosphate treatment to kill dinos? It's supposed to work against velvet, plus it's an algaecide.

1. I heard a salinity of 1.010 was sufficient.
Be cautious of marine organisms harbouring cells though. I run fresh water around tank to have them reintroduced a few weeks later thanks to a zoa and clam.

2. No not as far as I'm aware. Give it a test in sample water in correct ratios.

 

[illumnae]

1. I heard a salinity of 1.010 was sufficient.
Be cautious of marine organisms harbouring cells though. I run fresh water around tank to have them reintroduced a few weeks later thanks to a zoa and clam.

2. No not as far as I'm aware. Give it a test in sample water in correct ratios.

The only inverts I have left are snails, sandsifting stars and 2 SPS colonies. If I run hyposalinity on my tank I'd remove all the inverts first since I don't think they'd survive the hyposalinity - at that point probably the only inverts going back in would be the 2 SPS colonies.

The annoying thing about dinos is that even buying a new CUC, I run the risk of re-introducing it even if I manage to successfully eradicate it (and that's a big IF).

 

[Paullawr]

Oh I completely agree. It's a very tiring organism to combat.

If you can get it to just the odd brown patch you may have a chance with other organisms working against it.

Even a course of metro may help clear up the remainder.

 

[puffy127]

Does anyone have a picture of a cyst under the scope?

 

[FLSharkvictim]

Let me know your thoughts if I am eliminating Dinoflagellates the proper way in my 120 display? See below on the pictures I have below: I have few LPS frags and a few soft corals the and the rest are fish! The Dino is just starting to grow on my rocks within the last 2 weeks or but it's not getting any better, so here are the steps I will be doing to properly get a handle on this stuff. Currently, my PH is very low READING @ on my #Apex Controller @ 8.17 and I am in the process of moving it up to 8.4 ish! I added a Peri Pump from BRS that's connected to my Avast Kalk Stirrer and the pump pushes out 50mls per minute of kalk water to stabilize my Cal, Alk, Mag and my PH.. I just hooked up and its been running for about week now and I still haven't been able to hit that sweet spot yet. I just ordered two float switches so when my Peri pump gets to a certain level in my ATO storage container, my Apex Breakout box will cut the pump off instead of it running off a timer. The float switches will be able to turn the pump on & off ones it gets to whatever level I set at which will be right above my TUNZE ATO.. My plan of attack is the following - cut back on my feeding to a 1/2 of a cube instead of a full cube per day, weekly 10-gallon water changes & change out my GFO & carbon every other week or until it's exhausted. If you happen to have any other ideas on how to deal with this stuff before it takes over the entire, please advise?

TANK INFO:
120 display
Ecotech M1 pump
Apex Classic with a Salinity probe
Apex ALD Module w/ 2 Leak Detector probes
Apex PM2 Module
BreakOut box
Skimz 163 DC Montzer Series skimmer
Custom sump / Refuge
2 TUNZE Turbella 6055 Pumps
2 AI Hydra TwentySix HD LED Fixtures
Celestial C35W Maxspect Refuge Spotlight
Aqua UV Ultraviolet Sterilizer 25w
BRS Dual Media reactor
Eshoops IV Master & Slave Doser
Tunze 3155 Auto Top Off
Avast Kalk Stir - K1 Model

 

[taricha]

Does anyone have a picture of a cyst under the scope?

ostreopsis cysts - two forms from my beaker tests. Characteristic sesame seed shape with double thick wall - this is thought to be short term to deal with temporary bad conditions, or round with spherical double thick wall - this version is thought to be longer term, like to overwinter until next growing season.

 

[taricha]

Yes they are straight from the rock to a microscope, they really look without any movement but the strange thing is if they are death becouse they are still there? the place was clean few days ago so they need to be alive to apear in new place Seeing some videos in youtube they look like coolia or what do you think?

Super weird and interesting! Growing, but completely inactive under the scope? Possible to be mistaken about either observation? Maybe they are just settling, dead or nearly so onto those rocks from elsewhere. (My other explanation is crazy, so...)
2 possibilities on ID. Shape is like coolia that we mentioned earlier- most likely that's what they are. But you are doing peroxide and it has also been the case that in some beakers of mine, peroxide over extended time caused living ostreopsis to become round cells (but still moving/active).
As for cysts, coolia aren't known to do resting cysts, and ostreopsis cysts don't look grooved like that - see pics in my last post.

 

[taricha]

My plan of attack is the following - cut back on my feeding to a 1/2 of a cube instead of a full cube per day, weekly 10-gallon water changes & change out my GFO & carbon every other week or until it's exhausted. If you happen to have any other ideas on how to deal with this stuff before it takes over the entire, please advise?

That's what I'd do if I were trying to CAUSE a dino bloom. They do great in low P.
First thing I'd always do (unless I knew it was amphidinium) is UV.
yours look too stringy to be amphidinium, and a little too clumpy to be ostreopsis. I'd bet prorocentrum lima(?). Any chance you could get it under a microscope? Any snail/CuC deaths? Is it growing in good flow, or highest possible flow in the tank?

 

[puffy127]

ostreopsis cysts - two forms from my beaker tests. Characteristic sesame seed shape with double thick wall - this is thought to be short term to deal with temporary bad conditions, or round with spherical double thick wall - this version is thought to be longer term, like to overwinter until next growing season.

Thank you.

 

[taricha]

yours look too stringy to be amphidinium, and a little too clumpy to be ostreopsis. I'd bet prorocentrum lima(?). Any chance you could get it under a microscope?

Looked at first pic again. Really long strings. Gotta go with ostreopsis.

 

[mandrieu]

That's what I'd do if I were trying to CAUSE a dino bloom. They do great in low P.

Agree

 

[Jolanta]

Super weird and interesting! Growing, but completely inactive under the scope? Possible to be mistaken about either observation? Maybe they are just settling, dead or nearly so onto those rocks from elsewhere. (My other explanation is crazy, so...)
2 possibilities on ID. Shape is like coolia that we mentioned earlier- most likely that's what they are. But you are doing peroxide and it has also been the case that in some beakers of mine, peroxide over extended time caused living ostreopsis to become round cells (but still moving/active).
As for cysts, coolia aren't known to do resting cysts, and ostreopsis cysts don't look grooved like that - see pics in my last post.

Thank you very much Taricha. So its posible they are ostreopsis round cells beocuse of peroxide
I have two days without peroxide becouse of my acan and ricordea were afected and I wanted to see how it goes but I think I will start to dose peroxide once again putting on risk those corals, I prefer to loose then then to loose all my tank.

 

[Paullawr]

I asked them to get on it and they answer they will make a video about it.

You got to love Ryan. Top guy.

 

[Paullawr]

I asked them to get on it and they answer they will make a video about it.

What we need to do is send them some samples to add to their 52 week aquarium and then see how they get on :-D

 

[Paullawr]

Is that just being mean....

 

[Paullawr]

Let me know your thoughts if I am eliminating Dinoflagellates the proper way in my 120 display? See below on the pictures I have below: I have few LPS frags and a few soft corals the and the rest are fish! The Dino is just starting to grow on my rocks within the last 2 weeks or but it's not getting any better, so here are the steps I will be doing to properly get a handle on this stuff. Currently, my PH is very low READING @ on my #Apex Controller @ 8.17 and I am in the process of moving it up to 8.4 ish! I added a Peri Pump from BRS that's connected to my Avast Kalk Stirrer and the pump pushes out 50mls per minute of kalk water to stabilize my Cal, Alk, Mag and my PH.. I just hooked up and its been running for about week now and I still haven't been able to hit that sweet spot yet. I just ordered two float switches so when my Peri pump gets to a certain level in my ATO storage container, my Apex Breakout box will cut the pump off instead of it running off a timer. The float switches will be able to turn the pump on & off ones it gets to whatever level I set at which will be right above my TUNZE ATO.. My plan of attack is the following - cut back on my feeding to a 1/2 of a cube instead of a full cube per day, weekly 10-gallon water changes & change out my GFO & carbon every other week or until it's exhausted. If you happen to have any other ideas on how to deal with this stuff before it takes over the entire, please advise?

TANK INFO:
120 display
Ecotech M1 pump
Apex Classic with a Salinity probe
Apex ALD Module w/ 2 Leak Detector probes
Apex PM2 Module
BreakOut box
Skimz 163 DC Montzer Series skimmer
Custom sump / Refuge
2 TUNZE Turbella 6055 Pumps
2 AI Hydra TwentySix HD LED Fixtures
Celestial C35W Maxspect Refuge Spotlight
Aqua UV Ultraviolet Sterilizer 25w
BRS Dual Media reactor
Eshoops IV Master & Slave Doser
Tunze 3155 Auto Top Off
Avast Kalk Stir - K1 Model

This will do little to them and in fact just make it as favourable.