Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[Jolanta]

Sorry I missed your video, they are definitively dinos but they seem not bothering your corals so maybe you shouldnt be worry about it and keep your routines and maybe they will go away on its own.

 

[Jolanta]

See this frustrates me. You have a few people whom deal with dinoflagellates with the

- quick attack method
- slow and steady method

Suddenly become experts on all 2000 + strains.

Whilst you could argue we are limited to a number of them, I've seen at least twenty variations posted on threads in the last 6 months.

Add to that cells become resilient to the tried and tested methods and thanks to home cultured corals these strains are becoming hardier.

Lastly there are so few people that document there evidence, steps and results, it makes it all very intangible.

Im also convinced the many who think they have beat dinoflagellates with controlled steady approaches either
- have not actually dealt with them but something else.

- were lucky to find a strain that was more of a push over.

The ones that most of the people on this said thread - active now - are battling strains that destroy your soul and stab you in the heart.

Rather than post add N+P, smoke a kipper and be back for breakfast. Here's an idea.
Let's post step by step time lapse photos showing improvements with documented methods.

Otherwise I, plus at least four people on here are dumb ***** as we seriously haven't grasped it yet.

A decade of marine keeping isn't too shabby in my opinion and I've gone from text book, to alchemist to caveman in keeping livestock. It's not all been successful but then neither is life.
Still armed with that experience I do wonder where I'm failing.

I really feel like dummy sometimes, all my reef expert friends tell me "do this" or "do that" and your dino problem will finish couse it worked for them, but when I ask them what kind of dinos you won? they tell me they dont know, they never looked at them in the microscope, so we can not compare the fight if its not the same dino tipe. I feel like dummy couse I listen to them and put more and more things in my tank. What I really think there is no method to get rid of them its simply luck to make something that change your tank conditions and that dinos cant stand any more or simply get some microlife form that will reproduce and eat them.
I often wonder what would happen if I simply take care of my tank and dont make nothing to kill them, maybe thay would be way gone long time ago on their own, so I promised my self I wont put anything more in my tank, I will use Diatom Filter and black out if its necesary couse its the only think to give my tank a relieve from the massive outbreakes like the last one, I even have one snail moving and some copepods in the glass once again

 

[rockskimmerflow]

I really feel like dummy sometimes, all my reef expert friends tell me "do this" or "do that" and your dino problem will finish couse it worked for them, but when I ask them what kind of dinos you won? they tell me they dont know, they never looked at them in the microscope, so we can not compare the fight if its not the same dino tipe. I feel like dummy couse I listen to them and put more and more things in my tank. What I really think there is no method to get rid of them its simply luck to make something that change your tank conditions and that dinos cant stand any more or simply get some microlife form that will reproduce and eat them.
I often wonder what would happen if I simply take care of my tank and dont make nothing to kill them, maybe thay would be way gone long time ago on their own, so I promised my self I wont put anything more in my tank, I will use Diatom Filter and black out if its necesary couse its the only think to give my tank a relieve from the massive outbreakes like the last one, I even have one snail moving and some copepods in the glass once again

Best of luck with your fight. I have only encountered Ostreopsis ovata on the tanks that I sampled and microscope ID'd. I'm in southern California and that seems be the only type I've run across in the last 1.5 yrs. I honestly had only ever dealt with them once in the prior 6 years until about 1.5yrs ago. Since then I've come across a ton of aquariums in the socal region infested with them. As far as I can work out from talking to people about how they got them, most people have said it coincided with adding Trochus snails. I wonder if a big shipment of snails came in already infected a year or two ago. I have personally observed dino at many of the wholesale facilites here in the past couple years - generally in the invert systems.

O. ovata seems to respond fastest when I completely cut any items that might introduce iron into the tank. I usually stop nori input, and any 2 part that contains trace elements. Just pure calcium chloride and sodium carbonate solutions are used. And no trace vitamins/supplements are dosed while I am controlling the bloom initially. The dino tend to go from a snotting bubbly, stringy state to a powdery grayish dust. They cling to the sand longest in the cases I've dealt with. Usually rocks clear in a week or less, but the sand will have the persistent gray dust for a few weeks more til they finally subside. They definitely are still in the system, just getting out competed for space by organisms that favor the conditions more.

 

[bh750]

Help ID - Dinos Ost?

Hi all, I think These are Dinos? If so which type? Ost. ?

I posted this on the reef Chem forum but figured I'd post here to:


https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/3726698/

 

[Paullawr]

Best of luck with your fight. I have only encountered Ostreopsis ovata on the tanks that I sampled and microscope ID'd. I'm in southern California and that seems be the only type I've run across in the last 1.5 yrs. I honestly had only ever dealt with them once in the prior 6 years until about 1.5yrs ago. Since then I've come across a ton of aquariums in the socal region infested with them. As far as I can work out from talking to people about how they got them, most people have said it coincided with adding Trochus snails. I wonder if a big shipment of snails came in already infected a year or two ago. I have personally observed dino at many of the wholesale facilites here in the past couple years - generally in the invert systems.

O. ovata seems to respond fastest when I completely cut any items that might introduce iron into the tank. I usually stop nori input, and any 2 part that contains trace elements. Just pure calcium chloride and sodium carbonate solutions are used. And no trace vitamins/supplements are dosed while I am controlling the bloom initially. The dino tend to go from a snotting bubbly, stringy state to a powdery grayish dust. They cling to the sand longest in the cases I've dealt with. Usually rocks clear in a week or less, but the sand will have the persistent gray dust for a few weeks more til they finally subside. They definitely are still in the system, just getting out competed for space by organisms that favor the conditions more.

Wonder why the nori triggers more a response. Odd.

 

[Paullawr]

I don't either. Here is one -----------> . <--------------------

It was two actually.

 

[Lowefx]

Sorry I missed your video, they are definitively dinos but they seem not bothering your corals so maybe you shouldnt be worry about it and keep your routines and maybe they will go away on its own.

I pmed you the link

 

[Jolanta]

Best of luck with your fight. I have only encountered Ostreopsis ovata on the tanks that I sampled and microscope ID'd. I'm in southern California and that seems be the only type I've run across in the last 1.5 yrs. I honestly had only ever dealt with them once in the prior 6 years until about 1.5yrs ago. Since then I've come across a ton of aquariums in the socal region infested with them. As far as I can work out from talking to people about how they got them, most people have said it coincided with adding Trochus snails. I wonder if a big shipment of snails came in already infected a year or two ago. I have personally observed dino at many of the wholesale facilites here in the past couple years - generally in the invert systems.

O. ovata seems to respond fastest when I completely cut any items that might introduce iron into the tank. I usually stop nori input, and any 2 part that contains trace elements. Just pure calcium chloride and sodium carbonate solutions are used. And no trace vitamins/supplements are dosed while I am controlling the bloom initially. The dino tend to go from a snotting bubbly, stringy state to a powdery grayish dust. They cling to the sand longest in the cases I've dealt with. Usually rocks clear in a week or less, but the sand will have the persistent gray dust for a few weeks more til they finally subside. They definitely are still in the system, just getting out competed for space by organisms that favor the conditions more.

So your recomendation would be to cut the water changes and any additives and nori couse of the iron you mentioned. I already dont do water changes and add only bionic two part for kh and cal, dont use any aditive more, I do add Nori for my tangs.

 

[Paullawr]

So your recomendation would be to cut the water changes and any additives and nori couse of the iron you mentioned. I already dont do water changes and add only bionic two part for kh and cal, dont use any aditive more, I do add Nori for my tangs.

Removing nori at the danger of starving your tang? I think that wouldn't be wise. They are already likely stressed.

Besides, if its iron leeching in to the water we are concerned about (how much per sheet - even measurable in the x gallon tank you have?) - then that is treating dinoflagellates like algae again.

And for the love of baby Moses in a basket - they are not algae or diatoms or bacteria....

Lastly Iron has been reported to have the opposite effect on dinoflagellates.

But don't add iron to the tank or the dino police on this here thread will mock you for trying something radical.

Or

You might just get a diatom bloom which will block up the filter causing loads of maintenance.

See quote.

In one study, the researchers added iron to a variety of ocean environments and tracked the population change in various organisms.5 What they found is very interesting. The primary organisms that increased relative to the others were diatoms. The also found that cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates declined, and bacteria remained largely unchanged. They state “…at least eight diatom genera and an undetermined number of different autotrophic nanoplankton taxa were present in higher numbers in the Fe+ carboys, whereas cyanobacteria, one diatom group, and dinoflagellates were more numerous in the controls”. Also, “In contrast [to studies adding things besides iron], the HNLC bacterial communities in our experiments showed only a small response, despite large Fe-induced changes in biological and biochemical parameters.”

Source
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/10/chemistry

 

[taricha]

Here are my bugs.

What's the magnification on that video?
The one cell that's clearly a dino is amphidinium, but the hook nose thing sticking out (epicone) sticks out far enough, it looks like it might be small-cell amphidinium type.
Again, we're talking one identifiable cell, so it's impossible to say that what's brown in your tank is in fact that dino.

If dropping P makes your brown plague go away, then by all means continue, but that means your brown is likely not dinos, or at least not the kinds that are problematic.

 

[Paullawr]

What's the magnification on that video?
The one cell that's clearly a dino is amphidinium, but the hook nose thing sticking out (epicone) sticks out far enough, it looks like it might be small-cell amphidinium type.
Again, we're talking one identifiable cell, so it's impossible to say that what's brown in your tank is in fact that dino.

If dropping P makes your brown plague go away, then by all means continue, but that means your brown is likely not dinos, or at least not the kinds that are problematic.

You're very helpful you know that....don't you.

 

[taricha]

Previously I tried the bleach method. I wrongfully regret that I read the dosing wrong, and killed my fish. Anyways here is my YouTube link if what I got. Also 5 days lights out and h202 worked best for me. Diatioms were gone for about 2 months, now slowly coming back. Tank is 9 months old, and running zeovit system. I will continue running zeovit. Looks like I might think about replacing sand.....

Common Large-cell amphidinium. I think I answered already, but just in case you missed it.
Quoting your vid here in case a 2nd opinion was what you were after.

 

[Jolanta]

Removing nori at the danger of starving your tang? I think that wouldn't be wise. They are already likely stressed.

Besides, if its iron leeching in to the water we are concerned about (how much per sheet - even measurable in the x gallon tank you have?) - then that is treating dinoflagellates like algae again.

And for the love of baby Moses in a basket - they are not algae or diatoms or bacteria....

Lastly Iron has been reported to have the opposite effect on dinoflagellates.

But don't add iron to the tank or the dino police on this here thread will mock you for trying something radical.

Or

You might just get a diatom bloom which will block up the filter causing loads of maintenance.

See quote.

In one study, the researchers added iron to a variety of ocean environments and tracked the population change in various organisms.5 What they found is very interesting. The primary organisms that increased relative to the others were diatoms. The also found that cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates declined, and bacteria remained largely unchanged. They state “…at least eight diatom genera and an undetermined number of different autotrophic nanoplankton taxa were present in higher numbers in the Fe+ carboys, whereas cyanobacteria, one diatom group, and dinoflagellates were more numerous in the controls”. Also, “In contrast [to studies adding things besides iron], the HNLC bacterial communities in our experiments showed only a small response, despite large Fe-induced changes in biological and biochemical parameters.”

Source
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/10/chemistry

Like I said I will not change my routines any more, the only think I will add is to use a diatom filter and dont do so much water changes. The good thing for now my dinos seem to prefer my new scrubber to grow couse I cant see any in the tank, but its only one week after the blackout. I thing some iron would actually help to grow some green on my scrubber.

 

[Paullawr]

Like I said I will not change my routines any more, the only think I will add is to use a diatom filter and dont do so much water changes. The good thing for now my dinos seem to prefer my new scrubber to grow couse I cant see any in the tank, but its only one week after the blackout. I thing some iron would actually help to grow some green on my scrubber.

Yes it will. I dose iron.....and have very few dinoflagellates.

 

[Paullawr]

In fact I have the weirdest dinoflagellates. They pop up on a spot. Blow their nose. Create the smallest snot bubble...then disappear. For like a week.

I could do with your filter....added some new sand and all new rocks...caused a small (none nitrogen) cycle. The extra silicates have created a party zone for the diatoms.

 

[taricha]

Help ID - Dinos Ost?

Hi all, I think These are Dinos? If so which type? Ost. ?

I posted this on the reef Chem forum but figured I'd post here to:


https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/3726698/

Nope. Not ostis. I can't quite make out the definitive detail to be 100% sure between amphidinium and prorocentrum, but based on shape - like a red blood cell, how they cluster together, and their appearance in sand, I'm 90% those are large-cell amphidinium.
Any chance you could post a video of movement?

 

[Jolanta]

In fact I have the weirdest dinoflagellates. They pop up on a spot. Blow their nose. Create the smallest snot bubble...then disappear. For like a week.

I could do with your filter....added some new sand and all new rocks...caused a small (none nitrogen) cycle. The extra silicates have created a party zone for the diatoms.

I miss the sand but my dinos love it and it looked horrible before I got it out but I dream one day can add it once again and it will stay white.

 

[Paullawr]

I miss the sand but my dinos love it and it looked horrible before I got it out but I dream one day can add it once again and it will stay white.

My Dino's love rock. They don't go on the sand. But then they won't go on corals either. They grow around them. Then next day gone. Very weird.

 

[Jolanta]

My Dino's love rock. They don't go on the sand. But then they won't go on corals either. They grow around them. Then next day gone. Very weird.

You are lucky one couse mine love sand rocks and corals and even my circulation pumps.

 

[Paullawr]

You are lucky one couse mine love sand rocks and corals and even my circulation pumps.

I've had the not so nice ones too! And lost everything.