Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!
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Paul B
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Maybe the reason I don't have any dinos is because my nitrates are 160, PO2 is 2.0 and I run an algae scrubber. Or maybe I have dinos all over the place and because I am so "old" I can't see them. 
I think too many people in this hobby try to hard to strive for zero everything and don't let algae, pods and bacteria do what we pay them for.
I also dump amphipods in my tank by the hundreds as well as collect and dump in bacteria in the form of mud. But most people frown on that, I can see you frowning now. Maybe amphipods and copepods eat dinos as I have never seen them eating oatmeal.
Good luck youse guys.
Hope you figure out all this stuff before you become disgusted and take up stamp collecting or worse, golf.
I think too many people in this hobby try to hard to strive for zero everything and don't let algae, pods and bacteria do what we pay them for.
I also dump amphipods in my tank by the hundreds as well as collect and dump in bacteria in the form of mud. But most people frown on that, I can see you frowning now.
Maybe amphipods and copepods eat dinos as I have never seen them eating oatmeal. Good luck youse guys.
Hope you figure out all this stuff before you become disgusted and take up stamp collecting or worse, golf.
Velcro
2500 Club Member
My dinos came back about a month ago after being free of them for 3-4 months. I attribute to started aggressive water changes again to deal with cyano and replace some trace elements that my SPS might appreciate. I also cleaned my refugium out pretty aggresively and stirred up some stuff which led to both a PO4 reduction (chaeto aggressively regrowing).
I have taken a very passive approach to this reinfestation. I saw my PO4 was 0.03 (+/- o.o3) via the hannah checker so I assumed the worst and recorded it as undetectable. I dosed phosphate a couple times over the next few days to get up to 0.1 and have noticed weaking of the strands since (they are turning white).
Other than that, my inverts aren't dying and my sps color and growth is better than ever so I just don't care. I think a lot of the issues people have with dinos is trying to aggresively change something which leads to beneficial competitors perishing as well. I'm no expert by any means, but this is just my observation and hypothesis as someone that has been dealing with this in several tanks for over a year now.
I have taken a very passive approach to this reinfestation. I saw my PO4 was 0.03 (+/- o.o3) via the hannah checker so I assumed the worst and recorded it as undetectable. I dosed phosphate a couple times over the next few days to get up to 0.1 and have noticed weaking of the strands since (they are turning white).
Other than that, my inverts aren't dying and my sps color and growth is better than ever so I just don't care. I think a lot of the issues people have with dinos is trying to aggresively change something which leads to beneficial competitors perishing as well. I'm no expert by any means, but this is just my observation and hypothesis as someone that has been dealing with this in several tanks for over a year now.
Lol
I don't think I've ever been called that in all of my years and thousands of posts on these forums. Thanks!!!Been offline for a few days and just getting back on here. I'm definitely starting to watch my Dinos appear and bit then recede based on my nutrient levels.
Yes!! I don't even use it that much but each time is a huge payoff to the money spent! Thanks for posting a link to my pics.Edit:
Microscopes should come with reef tanks.
Amazing. Huh. Happened to me probably 3 times with different tear downs. Took me that much to finally learn.
That's exactly mine. Although these days my NO3 is a steady 15-17ppm and PO4 is up to 0.20.
Can you expand on this? I have no experience with the K
I have 4 tangs and wonder if I could get away with that?I eventually turned my tank into this. Macros in my fuge, display, everywhere.
AMEN! Had I not checked with my scope and confirmed it's no Dinos again I quite honestly would be back to contemplating an exit from the hobby.
What magnification you have found to be best for identification? I have a microscope with a 10x and a 12.5x. I haven't used it yet and am wondering will this be enough magnification.
Great question b/c its something I might do differently if I had to buy a scope again. A top member here on R2R who really knows this stuff said you need at least 2500x to properly identify things like cyano and dinos. Or maybe put better, thats what I understood him to say. So I got a scope that goes up to 2500x.
Now I've since learned thats waaaaay to high for things like this, not needed. I find myself using 400x max most times. I start at 40x, then move up to 100x to find the critters, and then 400x to clearly identify.
Im still a novice at all this so just my opinion.
Jolanta
Active Member
I have a toy microscope, max magnification 900x and you can identify dinos easy with 300x ( ostreopsis easily with 100x couse they are big guys
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Yeah, it will depend on the type as they can range in sizes. I have at least two main types in my system. One smaller and one much larger. 400x-800x is what I'd look for in general identifications. But even with my larger type I really didn't get a good identification until I was really able to hit 1000x and bring contrast way up to catch that it actually had two flagella which lead me to possible identification.
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There's a difference between objectives, eyepieces, condenser NA vs objective NA to get details vs magnifications. Anything over 1000x (ie. 100x objetive + 10x eyepiece) with a standard 1.20-1.30NA objective (oil) and condenser details start to reduce. Once over 2000x it becomes pretty apparent. With that said I'm often using my 40x, 60x, 100x objectives with a 25x eye piece for things I find interesting in what I'm observing.
Most things will get the best balance of details and magnification with a 40x objective and 10x-15x eyepieces.
mcarroll
10K Club member
I got a $12 toy scope to start with too.
See: Selecting a microscope
It has the usual magnifications up to 1200x though. It's actually got two eyepiece setting that are accessed by twisting the eyepiece. Lower magnifications are definitely more usable, but even on the toy scope the 1200x is still quite usable.
My main problem with 1200x is that I still don't have any cover slips – scanning around a 3D droplet of water in x, y and z axes with 1200x is just about futile.
1200x works fine with the one prepared slide that came with the scope though. 100x and 400x are definitely superior for scanning and finding.
Velcro
2500 Club Member
I posted this in the other dino thread, but wanted to get this info out to more people.
My Dino's came back after I started doing water changes again (20% weekly). This was about a month ago.
I took a relatively hands off approach by just dosing some phosphates to keep them around 0.1ppm and continuing to feed heavy to maintain my 5ppm nitrates. The Dino's got worse and worse over the month to the point of starting to tick off my limited zoas/palys as well as reduce polyp extension in SPS.
My type of Dino's seems to go into the water column at night for the most part, so I decided to try something that I haven't tried in the 1+ years that I've been dealing with this garbage in 3 tanks now... a UV sterilizer. I bought a 55 watt jebao pond sterilizer on amazon for $70ish dollars. It arrived yesterday and I hooked it up in the afternoon. I plumbed it directly to the display with a 300 gph quietone pump set to its lowest setting.
95% of the Dino's were gone this morning. Nothing but the white death webs were left.
During my lights on today there was NO noticeable growth in the few tiny areas of Dino's that I can barely find. So far this has been a HUGE success for me and this was the only change I have made... other than blasting the tank with a turkey baster a few hours after lights out to get as much in the water column as possible. Seems like a heck of a coincidence if it wasn't the UV.
My sunny Ds are open for the first time in over a week and I have noticeably more polyp extension in my SPS.
I will continue to update this thread with my findings, but if you have Dino's that seem to dissipate during lights out I HIGHLY recommend giving this a try.
My Dino's came back after I started doing water changes again (20% weekly). This was about a month ago.
I took a relatively hands off approach by just dosing some phosphates to keep them around 0.1ppm and continuing to feed heavy to maintain my 5ppm nitrates. The Dino's got worse and worse over the month to the point of starting to tick off my limited zoas/palys as well as reduce polyp extension in SPS.
My type of Dino's seems to go into the water column at night for the most part, so I decided to try something that I haven't tried in the 1+ years that I've been dealing with this garbage in 3 tanks now... a UV sterilizer. I bought a 55 watt jebao pond sterilizer on amazon for $70ish dollars. It arrived yesterday and I hooked it up in the afternoon. I plumbed it directly to the display with a 300 gph quietone pump set to its lowest setting.
95% of the Dino's were gone this morning. Nothing but the white death webs were left.
During my lights on today there was NO noticeable growth in the few tiny areas of Dino's that I can barely find. So far this has been a HUGE success for me and this was the only change I have made... other than blasting the tank with a turkey baster a few hours after lights out to get as much in the water column as possible. Seems like a heck of a coincidence if it wasn't the UV.
My sunny Ds are open for the first time in over a week and I have noticeably more polyp extension in my SPS.
I will continue to update this thread with my findings, but if you have Dino's that seem to dissipate during lights out I HIGHLY recommend giving this a try.
drawman
2500 Club Member
I've had my frag tank go downhill one coral at a time from these guys and I'm getting very frustrated. I realized I bottomed out on PO4 and have been raising it with an ultimate goal of 0.1ppm. NO3 is around 10ppm. Tank is about 30 gallons and bare bottom so I turned my skimmer back on and am now running a filter sock.
Would it be beneficial to H202 dip my remaining acros (diluted of course)? It's very sad to see them die one by one from these jerks. I would rather do weekly/semiweekly dipping to get them over the hump.
Would it be beneficial to H202 dip my remaining acros (diluted of course)? It's very sad to see them die one by one from these jerks. I would rather do weekly/semiweekly dipping to get them over the hump.
mcarroll
10K Club member
That's just more stress.
How's the dosing going and how's the tank progessing, if at all?
Unless you're also doing something crazy in your tank like household cleaners or drugs which would be better off here in this thread, can you post a current pic and update here: Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
Same thing. I stopped WC and dosed metro, that helped. I'm also going to try mcarroll way and raise my p04 from 0.03 to 0.1 well see how that goes, I havn't seen any in tank for a while...
Did you use dry rock by any chance?
Another 3 months on, I'm happy to let you know that they're still gone from my tank.
It's been a real struggle keeping nutrients up as my fish load is still light but with extra feedings and with dosing KNO3 I have managed to keep nitrate between 0.5-2.5 ppm at all times. Phosphate is still low but over zero.
As a reminder of my situation, I did dino-x, 8-day blackouts, peroxide etc and it would knock them back but they'd return. Raising nitrate and phosphate, allowing algae to grow a little bit and then hitting it with the dino-x, etc seems to have done the trick.
I'm still nervous that they'll return but for now at least keeping the tank a little dirtier is working.
mcarroll
10K Club member
That's great news!!
Don't forget to also (or instead) post over in Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
The latest info is to keep PO4 ≥ 0.10 ppm. At that level there should be no chance of a comeback.
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