Disappointing PAR Readings - New Lights Needed?

Dana Riddle · Jul 1, 2017

I have a question - Is the Red Sea nitrate kit one that uses the cadmium-reduction method? What color change do you see if nitrates are measurable?

cmcoker · Jul 1, 2017

Dana Riddle said:
I have a question - Is the Red Sea nitrate kit one that uses the cadmium-reduction method? What color change do you see if nitrates are measurable?

I use red sea pro, it's turns shades of pink depending on level.

Here's the reagents listed on the msds

dmw913 · Jul 4, 2017

Update: I ran a full set of params as I indicated I would and my Ca and Mg were a little low. I've been slowly bumping them up and have skipped last weekend's water change. I also got some kalk and am adding a small amount to top off water. Coral continue to show improvement so I'll just continue to keep dialing things in to their most optimum level and see where that gets me. I have chosen to wait until at least MACNA to do anything about lighting as I assume I can get some good info there.

FTS from today:

Ashish Patel · Jul 4, 2017

Looks great. Don't worry I am in a similar boat as you. 3 month old tank very little growth and using the par meter was 150-200 range where I keep most my sps. I have 2 gen 4 radion aswell and bumped them up to 100% for few hrs per day.

Ashish Patel · Jul 4, 2017

Didn't mean "aswell" in terms of radion I seen your post again then bc of cost and I've used lights from aquatraders and they all grow coral. It's those other factors that play a major factor. Look at jason fox tank. Not ridiculous on light but more focus on stability, waterchange and flow flow flow

dmw913 · Jul 5, 2017

Ashish Patel said:
Didn't mean "aswell" in terms of radion I seen your post again then bc of cost and I've used lights from aquatraders and they all grow coral. It's those other factors that play a major factor. Look at jason fox tank. Not ridiculous on light but more focus on stability, waterchange and flow flow flow

Thanks for the feedback! I'm really trying to be vigilant about my params, WCs and maintenance. Makes no sense to meticulously plan tank and then not maintain it, right?!?!

I'm also occasionally using Aquarimate software to log results and set tasks. Anyone else find their software useful?

SashimiTurtle · Jul 5, 2017

dmw913 said:
Thanks for the feedback! I'm really trying to be vigilant about my params, WCs and maintenance. Makes no sense to meticulously plan tank and then not maintain it, right?!?!

I'm also occasionally using Aquarimate software to log results and set tasks. Anyone else find their software useful?

Is that a pc program? Android, iPhone? I've been using a notebook but it seems I misplaced it. I couldn't find it yesterday when I was testing water.

Ashish Patel · Jul 5, 2017

dmw913 said:
Thanks for the feedback! I'm really trying to be vigilant about my params, WCs and maintenance. Makes no sense to meticulously plan tank and then not maintain it, right?!?!

I'm also occasionally using Aquarimate software to log results and set tasks. Anyone else find their software useful?

You right,, we have to maintain but my mistake was I did not monitor nutrient b/c I went overkill with a fuge with miracle mud, marinepure block (the large one), oversize skimmer, adding chemi pure elite, and 2 mp40 working on overdrive so now I am trying to add nutrients. My theory was if I keep it low I will prevent dinos or other algaes.

I've only made 2 small water changes since I set it up - replacing 10 gallons when adding fish lol.... Mainly because I believe in water change only for replenish trace elements used by corals,, During the first few months nothing was in the tank really. I would ease up on the water change for every 2-4 weeks and in small amount. It really becomes a necessity to do larger water changes as your tank matures because the larger corals absorb all those other trace elements we don't monitor such as potassium, maganese, iodine, etc - too find after few years everything RTN or just stop growing for not explainable reason.. Plus their is such thing as over kill maintainence.. just try to find a balance with nutrients and feed the corals - definitely easier said than done.

I've lost a ton of color of my stylos and birdnest from running to clean. I have forgotten what the colors are suppose to look like until I go on the web and see all these stunning tanks

Well get there!

SashimiTurtle · Jul 5, 2017

Ashish Patel said:
You right,, we have to maintain but my mistake was I did not monitor nutrient b/c I went overkill with a fuge with miracle mud, marinepure block (the large one), oversize skimmer, adding chemi pure elite, and 2 mp40 working on overdrive so now I am trying to add nutrients. My theory was if I keep it low I will prevent dinos or other algaes.

I've only made 2 small water changes since I set it up - replacing 10 gallons when adding fish lol.... Mainly because I believe in water change only for replenish trace elements used by corals,, During the first few months nothing was in the tank really. I would ease up on the water change for every 2-4 weeks and in small amount. It really becomes a necessity to do larger water changes as your tank matures because the larger corals absorb all those other trace elements we don't monitor such as potassium, maganese, iodine, etc - too find after few years everything RTN or just stop growing for not explainable reason.. Plus their is such thing as over kill maintainence.. just try to find a balance with nutrients and feed the corals - definitely easier said than done.

I've lost a ton of color of my stylos and birdnest from running to clean. I have forgotten what the colors are suppose to look like until I go on the web and see all these stunning tanks Well get there!

I'm in the same boat in my nano. Water is too clean. 0 NO3, 0 PO4. I started noticing my green monti cap was looking a bit pale, but I thought it was just the lighting because it was growing, then my blue stylo starting to pale, now my green seriatopora is fading. I've removed chemical filtration and see what that does. No fish in the tank but I dose 2ml Red Sea energy A&B a day. Might start with spectracide stump remover if that doesn't bring nutrients up.

Ashish Patel · Jul 5, 2017

Im considering leaving a dirty filter sock to become a nitrate factory, or drop some raw shrimp into one filter sock.. Keep one sock compartment open.. I don't know trying to do anything then avoid any garden products!!

BoomCorals · Jul 5, 2017

Robin Haselden said:
Sounds like you're doing everything right, that tank is still a baby tho. Consider switching to the blue bucket RS salt instead of the black bucket. The alk is way high in that stuff(around 11.5-12dKH) and can easily alk burn your SPS.(I did that) LPS and softies won't be effected as much. Give the tank some time to mature, put some money aside and in six months or so if you still aren't happy with your lights you can purchase new ones. I have SBReef lights and all I can keep happy under them is LPS and pallys right now. I'll probably just leave them on that tank and upgrade when I upgrade tanks.

I use SB reef lights and get amazing color and growth from all coral including my SPS frag tank and SPS dominated 180g.

BoomCorals · Jul 5, 2017

zsuzsu said:
Do your reef and yourself a favor, if you're really serious about sps, then go t5 or halide or both. period..... zsu

Totally unnecessary

BoomCorals · Jul 5, 2017

zsuzsu said:
yes you can grow coral with leds you just need an $800 radion for every square foot over your reef. thats fine for the pros they dont pay for there stuff. i have radions, g3s and g4s, they work but nothing like t5s and halides, i guess if i get 5 or 6 of them and put them over a 90 gallon it might work.

Totally not true. SB reef lights are way cheaper and work just as well.

saltyfilmfolks · Jul 5, 2017

BoomCorals said:
Totally not true. SB reef lights are way cheaper and work just as well.

Maybe we shouldn't let just anyone know.

dmw913 · Jul 5, 2017

@Ashish Patel Such a nice FTS! Really pretty! I am totally already trying the filter sock thing. Leaving it in way longer than I would have normally. I'll let you know if I can bump up the No3 with that alone. Thanks for the feedback!

@Robin Haselden Great I have the Red Sea stuff but was trying to use up the last bit of Fuel before I switched. Do you think I just ought to toss it and go Red Sea? Thanks for the info!

@BoomCorals Agreed that we can do just fine with LEDs alone. Just need to get things dialed in.

@saltyfilmfolks Don't you dare try to keep good, well-priced suggestions a secret!

Ashish Patel · Jul 5, 2017

I got frags from a local guy and he was using these LEDs on his frag system... not sure if you can tell from the second pictures reflections. I was pleasantly surprised with polyp extension and coloration..

HolisticBear · Jul 5, 2017

dmw913 said:
I'm also occasionally using Aquarimate software to log results and set tasks. Anyone else find their software useful?

I'm using Aquarium Note on Android, recommended. I read rave reviews of Aquarimate for iOS, but when I looked a few months ago, their Android port was getting horrible reviews and didn't seem up to the quality of their iOS version.

Vaughn17 · Jul 5, 2017

Here is a cheap way to discover whether your corals need more light: Buy a 75 or 100 watt high output, outdoor 5K led spotlight and one of those metal clamp-on light fixtures. Use it to augment your lighting for a while. I was concerned that my dimmable T5 wasn't putting out enough light, so I tried this. PE went from ok to massive and within a few weeks browned out corals began to coral up. Had this not occurred, I would have presumed that my water quality was somehow off.

dmw913 · Jul 12, 2017

7/12/2017 Update: "I'm a dumb butt - a cautionary tale." **Cross-posted from my build thread**

Ok, I've gone on and on about being meticulous in planning, maintenance and most all things for the tank because I want to be successful. I've also invested a bunch of money that I don't want wasted, right?! I test regularly, try to educate myself as to most things reef and overall do a good job. Hell, I have a PAR meter in an effort to be on point...

Imagine my surprise, embarrassment, frustration when I got a new bottle of calibration solution for my refractometer as I had been out for a little while and recalibrated to find that my hydrometer was wildly off which in turn made my tank water exceptionally low in salinity. No wonder I have been struggling. Grrrrr. I'm as mad at myself for not having extra solution on hand and trusting the refractometer would hold it's calibration for a moment, frustrated at chasing my tail over certain issues only to have a major, fundamental issue staring me in the face and missing it, and super sad that I've likely stressed my fish and corals all while looking for other issues. #forestfortreesmuch?!

In any event, I'm fixing the problem and moving on from here as we all do when we have a setback in this hobby while trying to take some lessons from it. I received my sodium nitrate in the mail and mixed up a solution according to the math found at https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sodium-nitrate-dosing.271540/ (Big thanks to @drawman and @Randy Holmes-Farley for the math! I would have had no idea how to do it without that thread.) I had an extra Sodastream bottle that is exactly 1 liter and very sturdy so it makes a great container for the solution. I've also received my BRS 2 part + Mg and gotten that all mixed.

I've also ordered more calibration solution...

I'll get the salinity of the tank back to where it needs to be, finish dialing in all the rest of the parameters, survey the damage and report back.

As an aside on the lighting issue, obviously should not make any lighting changes until tank params are stable and I have the ability to ascertain if I actually even have a lighting problem...

D