Disease identification?

[Waters]

Anybody know what these red dots are on this hammer skeleton? I am relatively new to LPS.....have only kept SPS up until this current setup. I am losing random heads across different colonies...trying to find out why. ICP test showing nothing alarming......all other parameters are inline (ALK, CA, MG, etc.). No swings or changes other than adding some new colonies every so often. The red dots don't come off with dips and they don't appear to move. Might be nothing....just trying to eliminate possible causes. I think I am going back to SPS where it is easy lol.

 

[bluemon]

Looks like coralline

Unlike most SPS (I guess pocilloporas and styloporas do this) the bottom green portions are effectively dead skeleton, meaning anything on there is most likely stuff you find on live rock.

You can see some eggs of euphyllia eating pests on the edge of the flesh band and the dead skeleton but that’s about it

 

[Shirak]

You are getting quite a bit of tissue recession IMO something is off with your parameters. Can you list them? what par level are they at?

The red dots are nothing.

 

[bluemon]

You are getting quite a bit of tissue recession IMO something is off with your parameters. Can you list them? what par level are they at?

The red dots are nothing.

I don’t see any tissue recession?

That’s a healthy amount of fleshband for a euphyllia.

 

[Waters]

Yeah parameters are definately good......ALK 8.4, Ca 440, Mg 1307, P04 .12, Nitrate 12, 1.025 sg......ICP testing all in normal ranges....PAR is about 250. Nothing is out of whack which is why I was leaning towards a pest (I have looked at dieing heads under a scope and saw nothing) or a bacterial infection of some type. The colonies that aren't affected are doing fantastic but I have lost 2 torches and at least 10 hammer heads across three colonies over a 2 month period. Starts with a single head closing up, and it is totally gone by the next day. Surrounding heads appear totally normal, until it spreads to the next closest head.

 

[Shirak]

I don’t see any tissue recession?

That’s a healthy amount of fleshband for a euphyllia.

Yes there is a nice big flesh band but there are also large aand irregular shaped white patches below it. To me this indicates something changed recently and caused recession. It warrants monitoring.

 

[Shirak]

Yeah parameters are definately good......ALK 8.4, Ca 440, Mg 1307, P04 .12, Nitrate 12, 1.025 sg......ICP testing all in normal ranges....PAR is about 250. Nothing is out of whack which is why I was leaning towards a pest (I have looked at dieing heads under a scope and saw nothing) or a bacterial infection of some type. The colonies that aren't affected are doing fantastic but I have lost 2 torches and at least 10 hammer heads across three colonies over a 2 month period. Starts with a single head closing up, and it is totally gone by the next day. Surrounding heads appear totally normal, until it spreads to the next closest head.

Sounds indicative of bjd. Do you see any brown mushy stuff? You may not if flow is strong. Maybe post some photos if it happens again. Parameters do look good. Nitrate possibly a little on the low side but that’s it.

 

[Waters]

Sounds indicative of bjd. Do you see any brown mushy stuff? You may not if flow is strong. Maybe post some photos if it happens again. Parameters do look good. Nitrate possibly a little on the low side but that’s it.

I considered bjd but never really saw anything close to what I saw online....head just stops opening and disintegrates. Still a possibility though. Flow is definately not too strong....it was designed with Euphyllia in mind (whole tank is nothing but Euphyllia and a few gonis). Running a wavebox and two Nero 7s......all LPS just wave back and forth. I will definately grab a pic of it in progress next time.....I am pretty confident it will happen again unfortunately.

 

[Waters]

Yes there is a nice big flesh band but there are also large aand irregular shaped white patches below it. To me this indicates something changed recently and caused recession. It warrants monitoring.

This picture is from a colony that is slowly dieing head by head. Started with roughly 25 heads...down to about half that amount now. Grew from 4 or 5 heads.....nothing has changed since it was originally put in.

 

[Shirak]

This picture is from a colony that is slowly dieing head by head. Started with roughly 25 heads...down to about half that amount now. Grew from 4 or 5 heads.....nothing has changed since it was originally put in.

What kind of time frame? Have you adjusted flow and feeding as they have grown? That many heads will slow the water movement and they will consume more nutrients both particles and from the water. I would try bumping nitrates up if it's all Euphyllia and Goni.

You may have to consider an in tank treatment with Cipro or try the coral infection elimination Joker corals carries. I think dipping infected heads would be impractical. Sure sounds like BJD. Infected heads will deflate and in a day or two are just broken up into nothing with brown mush down in the skeleton. Try removing one and have a wiff. Usually has a really stinky odor.

BTW can't see the photo.

 

[Waters]

What kind of time frame? Have you adjusted flow and feeding as they have grown? That many heads will slow the water movement and they will consume more nutrients both particles and from the water. I would try bumping nitrates up if it's all Euphyllia and Goni.

You may have to consider an in tank treatment with Cipro or try the coral infection elimination Joker corals carries. I think dipping infected heads would be impractical. Sure sounds like BJD. Infected heads will deflate and in a day or two are just broken up into nothing with brown mush down in the skeleton. Try removing one and have a wiff. Usually has a really stinky odor.

BTW can't see the photo.

The way I have my flow setup (using a wavebox rather than wave makers) the larger colony doesn't impede flow at all....every colony has the exact same flow in the tank with everything waving back and forth (like a lagoon). Tank has been setup for about a year with roughly 20 different colonies (6 torches, bunch of hammers and frogspawn, one elegance, and several gonis. Nothing has changed in the years time including flow, lighting, nutrients, etc. I think you are on the right path with the bjd. I am heavily leaving towards bacterial. I will have to try smelling it if I lose another one......didn't think to try that. I did try dipping, cutting off dieing heads, etc. Neither did anything to stop it.

Not sure why the original photo isn't showing up for you?

 

[Shirak]

oh the original is showing up just fine. Thought you were talking about a more recent upload. Do you have any in tank photos or short video to show the flow etc? I think it is bacterial based on your description. But if they are stressed in some fashion recently it makes them more susceptible. I am primarily looking at the lowish nitrates for a primarily LPS tank. and the irregular larger white patches of recently exposed skeleton which could indicate a recent stress event. Yes there is a nice large flesh band and you will see some steadily exposed skeleton as they elongate but irregular areas or large areas like this are a warning sign IMO

Have you always run nitrates around 12ppm? Keep in mind test kits have a margin of error so it could be closer to 0. What kind of fish load and feeding? Corals going from a few heads to a dozen or two in a year is great but they will consume quite a bit more nutrients. My LPS have always done best when I feed them 2 or 3 times a week even with nitrates double what you have.

 

[bluemon]

oh the original is showing up just fine. Thought you were talking about a more recent upload. Do you have any in tank photos or short video to show the flow etc? I think it is bacterial based on your description. But if they are stressed in some fashion recently it makes them more susceptible. I am primarily looking at the lowish nitrates for a primarily LPS tank. and the irregular larger white patches of recently exposed skeleton which could indicate a recent stress event. Yes there is a nice large flesh band and you will see some steadily exposed skeleton as they elongate but irregular areas or large areas like this are a warning sign IMO

Have you always run nitrates around 12ppm? Keep in mind test kits have a margin of error so it could be closer to 0. What kind of fish load and feeding? Corals going from a few heads to a dozen or two in a year is great but they will consume quite a bit more nutrients. My LPS have always done best when I feed them 2 or 3 times a week even with nitrates double what you have.

Honestly I don’t see this being an issue; the flesh band is more than healthy, and it could just be from recent growth.

I have quite a few euphyllia myself that thrive and grow with less fleshband than that.

Unless I am doing things wrong as well…

 

[ReefQuestCorals]

What kind of time frame? Have you adjusted flow and feeding as they have grown? That many heads will slow the water movement and they will consume more nutrients both particles and from the water. I would try bumping nitrates up if it's all Euphyllia and Goni.

You may have to consider an in tank treatment with Cipro or try the coral infection elimination Joker corals carries. I think dipping infected heads would be impractical. Sure sounds like BJD. Infected heads will deflate and in a day or two are just broken up into nothing with brown mush down in the skeleton. Try removing one and have a wiff. Usually has a really stinky odor.

BTW can't see the photo.

Id 2nd this

Cipro and coral infection elimination in a 4-6 hour bath. Recently had one of my newer heads of holy grail start doing some weird stuff and retracting along with a nice hammer that the head was halfway gone already that iv saved using a mixture of both in a bath.

 

[ReefQuestCorals]

Honestly I don’t see this being an issue; the flesh band is more than healthy, and it could just be from recent growth.

I have quite a few euphyllia myself that thrive and grow with less fleshband than that.

Unless I am doing things wrong as well…

The issue I see with the flesh band is it looks to be somewhat pealing back at the edge, along with some what looks like small tears going up. Typically id like to see a solid flesh coming down that doesnt look to be pealing at the edge.

 

[Waters]

What kind of time frame? Have you adjusted flow and feeding as they have grown? That many heads will slow the water movement and they will consume more nutrients both particles and from the water. I would try bumping nitrates up if it's all Euphyllia and Goni.

You may have to consider an in tank treatment with Cipro or try the coral infection elimination Joker corals carries. I think dipping infected heads would be impractical. Sure sounds like BJD. Infected heads will deflate and in a day or two are just broken up into nothing with brown mush down in the skeleton. Try removing one and have a wiff. Usually has a really stinky odor.

BTW can't see the photo.

oh the original is showing up just fine. Thought you were talking about a more recent upload. Do you have any in tank photos or short video to show the flow etc? I think it is bacterial based on your description. But if they are stressed in some fashion recently it makes them more susceptible. I am primarily looking at the lowish nitrates for a primarily LPS tank. and the irregular larger white patches of recently exposed skeleton which could indicate a recent stress event. Yes there is a nice large flesh band and you will see some steadily exposed skeleton as they elongate but irregular areas or large areas like this are a warning sign IMO

Have you always run nitrates around 12ppm? Keep in mind test kits have a margin of error so it could be closer to 0. What kind of fish load and feeding? Corals going from a few heads to a dozen or two in a year is great but they will consume quite a bit more nutrients. My LPS have always done best when I feed them 2 or 3 times a week even with nitrates double what you have.

Yeah, I have always kept my nitrates around 10ish......I use Hanna for nitrates which has a +/- of 2 so nitrates should be fine. All the euphyllia actually get fed mysis daily from broadcast feeding the fish.

 

[bluemon]

The issue I see with the flesh band is it looks to be somewhat pealing back at the edge, along with some what looks like small tears going up. Typically id like to see a solid flesh coming down that doesnt look to be pealing at the edge.

Now that you mention the peeling, that might be the case here, good eye.

At least OP has quite a bit of leeway as the width of the flesh band is quite significant until the changes necessary take place

 

[ReefQuestCorals]

Now that you mention the peeling, that might be the case here, good eye.

At least OP has quite a bit of leeway as the width of the flesh band is quite significant until the changes necessary take place

For sure theres a nice amount of flesh there. I think a good antibiotic bath on all euphyllia would be helpful, I feel it would have to be bacterial with how its slowly spreading throughout each colony

 

[Waters]

For sure theres a nice amount of flesh there. I think a good antibiotic bath on all euphyllia would be helpful, I feel it would have to be bacterial with how its slowly spreading throughout each colony

Thanks for the help everyone......I will pick up the necessary antibiotics and go that route. I assume the treatment needs to take place outside of the DT with each colony? Is Cipro available without a prescription?