I have noticed that sound is a major factor price wise. A $800 skimmer is silent compared to a $400 skimmer on any size tank. Also pumps built better and one thing I haven't explored... the bubble output. Cheap skimmers will let micro bubbles out like crazy is that change with price at all?
Do high end skimmers work more efficiently?
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Scott.h
Valuable Member
Not according to the experiment. My modern wine bottle underproformed older standard shapes.
could it be from an increase volume in pump making more water movement breaking it up?
nervousmonkey
LPS Lover, SPS Enabler
Yep, this exactly. So much regarding skimmer performance is dependent on matching skimmer body to the pump, especially the skimmers of today. Matching the body to pump gives optimized performance metrics like what @Centerline stated here.
It is tough to take a skimmer today, change the pump and expect good performance. Small things like bubble size, which is directly correlated to surface area and subsequently efficiency, make an enormous difference in the end result of what @Scott.h stated in the original post: pulling out maximum skimmate.
The best way to ensure that you'll get the maximum nasty skimmate is to buy a good skimmer. Spending more or less on a skimmer is like spending more or less on a car; a lot is marketing, some of it is piece of mind, looks, quality of craftsmanship, warranty, etc. As there isn't much difference between sports cars and efficiency cars when it comes to both being able to get to 60 mph, stop in specific distances, and so on, same with skimmers.
Find a skimmer you really like looking at and listening to and so on. ;-) You have to live with it for a while.
DAPG8GT
Active Member
I personally don't see a difference between "wine bottle" single piece and welded seam with my two at all if we're taking being able to tune waste and functionality .. I have a vertex omega 150 ( still entry level but quality is there for sure) on my 105g and the aquamaxx coneS Q3 on my 180g / 100g sump and honestly they are both great skimmers.
The vertex seems like the pump is a bit stronger for the size of the body and can easily overpower the skimmer vs the aquamaxx but as for functionality no..
Build quality yes for sure..
The vertex seems like the pump is a bit stronger for the size of the body and can easily overpower the skimmer vs the aquamaxx but as for functionality no..
Build quality yes for sure..
nervousmonkey
LPS Lover, SPS Enabler
I have a Deltec SC 1660 on a 135 G system. Works great and I wouldn't give it up for anything. That thing is a beast; add an Avast Marine Swabbie and a Davy Jones skimmate locker, dial it in and leave it. You'll get black skimmate from that thing it's so good.
OP: You're telling us to ignore everything except price and the tank size that the skimmer is rated for. The problem with that is the tank size the skimmer is rated for is no more than guess from the skimmer manufacturer. So, it would be silly to try to compare one skimmer to another in that way.
The variables that you asked us to leave out of the debate (electricity usage, quality of the build/components, appearance, adjust-ability, noise, etc) are actually all that really matters when it comes to picking a skimmer. All skimmers pull junk out of the water and most do a pretty good job. Keep in mind that it's impossible to compare apples to apples with different skimmer brands because they are all made so differently and there are so many variables to consider. The type of pump that is on them being the biggest one.
When I buy a skimmer the most important thing to consider is quality of the components because I don't want to deal with cheap crap that breaks after a year of use. Can the el cheapo skimmer pull enough junk out of the water to keep a tank happy and healthy. Of course! That's not the issue. The issue is how often you're going to be dealing with problems on the el cheapo model made in china. The issue is how loud it is sitting in your living room. A BK is dead silent for example. The cheap brands can be very loud. It also comes down to the quality of the pump and the quality of the body. The pump is probably the most important factor. For me, if I spend a decent amount on a skimmer it's because I want the high quality pump that I know is going to work like a charm non-stop for many years. I also prefer a higher quality body that is easy to clean and take apart and does crack or break easily during that process. The reason many high end skimmers actually cost so much is because of the pumps. They're just made really really well and will outlast a lower quality pump. The thickness of the material and the types of connections that hold it all together are part of it too (for example titanium screws on the bubble kings).
Now, I'm not saying you can't buy a cheaper brand and get a quality skimmer that lasts a long time and does a good job. You absolutely can. But, for me, I like going with a trustworthy brand that I know I will last as long as my tank is running. A bubble king is well worth the price to me. I understand that not everyone can afford that however.
The variables that you asked us to leave out of the debate (electricity usage, quality of the build/components, appearance, adjust-ability, noise, etc) are actually all that really matters when it comes to picking a skimmer. All skimmers pull junk out of the water and most do a pretty good job. Keep in mind that it's impossible to compare apples to apples with different skimmer brands because they are all made so differently and there are so many variables to consider. The type of pump that is on them being the biggest one.
When I buy a skimmer the most important thing to consider is quality of the components because I don't want to deal with cheap crap that breaks after a year of use. Can the el cheapo skimmer pull enough junk out of the water to keep a tank happy and healthy. Of course! That's not the issue. The issue is how often you're going to be dealing with problems on the el cheapo model made in china. The issue is how loud it is sitting in your living room. A BK is dead silent for example. The cheap brands can be very loud. It also comes down to the quality of the pump and the quality of the body. The pump is probably the most important factor. For me, if I spend a decent amount on a skimmer it's because I want the high quality pump that I know is going to work like a charm non-stop for many years. I also prefer a higher quality body that is easy to clean and take apart and does crack or break easily during that process. The reason many high end skimmers actually cost so much is because of the pumps. They're just made really really well and will outlast a lower quality pump. The thickness of the material and the types of connections that hold it all together are part of it too (for example titanium screws on the bubble kings).
Now, I'm not saying you can't buy a cheaper brand and get a quality skimmer that lasts a long time and does a good job. You absolutely can. But, for me, I like going with a trustworthy brand that I know I will last as long as my tank is running. A bubble king is well worth the price to me. I understand that not everyone can afford that however.
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Boa1277
Community Member
This is a funny thread because the guys that buy cheaper skimmers will tell you a hundred ways it works just as well as a High End Bubble King or ATB.....I have owned lots of them and I will never own another skimmer not named Bubble King. Build quality performance and reliability are big for me. It has been 7yrs and not a blip. Hell I only clean it once a year. I have a lid scraper and find this is enough. Good luck with whatever you buy.
That's been my experience as well. And when it comes time to take down the tank and sell off your equipment, you can recover a lot of what you originally paid for it. Bubblekings hold their value really well because people know they will last 10 years without a problem. And they work very well too of course.
I have a LifeReef 48". It's pulling nasty dark junk without any tuning since day 1. It just works and works well. As someone else said, it's all about contact time. For me price wasn't the deciding factor, I wanted what I thought would be the best for my size system.
I think price is all relative to what people are willing to pay. A lot of the higher end skimmers have amazing build quality. Do they actually skim better? Not sure...but they are built well.
I think price is all relative to what people are willing to pay. A lot of the higher end skimmers have amazing build quality. Do they actually skim better? Not sure...but they are built well.
OP
OP
Scott.h
Valuable Member
I was more playing devils advocate-leave bells, whistles, and price out of the equation. I'm not concerned with noise, (it's in the basement), I'm not concerned with power consumption, (this hobby has never been cheap), etc. I want to understand flat out performance. Convince me spending money is worth it.
For instance, if I wanted to be a competitive drag racer I probably wouldn't buy a new Malibu. Although that would get my family around comfortably and at fair price for years. At the same time if I bought fine tuned performance engine, tight tolarnace on high boost I may expect to rebuild it once a season. Some people value different things. Caddilacs ride smooth, a Prius gets good gas mileage. I drive a raptor that gets 11 mpg, but it hauls my bike in style.
I bought a reef octopus classic, that imo was under priced, it's very quiet, and I've had no problems with it after two years. For the money I then bought a second one for another tank. So this time I really questioned what was flashy, what was functional, and what was vanity. Everything on this build has been top notch. I don't mind spending money if it brings value. That article posted really enlightened me. I have 3 systems. Thousands just in powerheads. So I really try to break things down logically. If I had one system money could probably be spend a little different. Either way I wanted facts on horsepower if you will.
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I run a SWC 160 for 3 years, this thing is a "junk pullin monster". I bought it used and have often played this game = man "buy a bigger / better skimmer" then I walk downstairs to my sump with skimmer and say why, "it ain't broke - don't fix it" and my 120g MD is still happy. 
Great topic, thanks for asking.
Great topic, thanks for asking.
Bruce Burnett
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I can't see replacing A reef dynamics as they work well. I have an INS-450 you have a few choices for pump replacements, sedra, eheim or a number of DC pumps. The eco plus are just a sedra replacement. Because mine is 32 inches tall 10 inch diameter a number of the pumps out there will not work.
I get what you're saying. You want to know if the higher end skimmers will perform better because they cost so much. However, what I'm saying is that this may or may not be the case. Some higher end skimmers definitely do perform better than cheap brands, others might perform about the same as a cheap brand. I don't think anyone can reliably tell you whether or not spending more will result in better performance. But, what I can tell you for sure is that the higher end skimmers are generally made better, include high quality pumps, and will most likely out last most cheap skimmers. They will also hold their value longer.
120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
I bought a Euro Reef skimmer I'd say about 14 years ago?? At the time this was a pretty high end skimmer with a price tag to match.
I still use it to this day and it still runs like a champ. It was not the most expensive skimmer at the time , but it was upper end for sure.
I asked a local LFS what skimmers he ran. He didn't tell me straight away so I took a sneak peak and he ran all Euro Reefs .
So then I told him " hey I want a Euro Reef " .... he just smiled and said sure.
My best purchase to date in the hobby in 18 years.
I still use it to this day and it still runs like a champ. It was not the most expensive skimmer at the time , but it was upper end for sure.
I asked a local LFS what skimmers he ran. He didn't tell me straight away so I took a sneak peak and he ran all Euro Reefs .
So then I told him " hey I want a Euro Reef " .... he just smiled and said sure.
My best purchase to date in the hobby in 18 years.
Here's a Skimmer that does alot of what you want if not all. Plus it is at a reasonable price. Especially when on sale at marine depot. Aquamaxx Q2 . (uses a sicce pump and can be taken completely apart as well) https://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMax...uariums_Reefs-AquaMaxx-UJ00157-FIPSIS-vi.html
Bruce Burnett
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Most of the needle wheel skimmers are short because most of the pumps lose output of water and bubbles as the head pressure increases. pressure pumps used on beckett or pressure venturi skimmers can do a better job than most needle wheel but they are hungry for power and noise. They were usually too tall to fit under the stand. Needle wheel skimmers are quieter and shorter most are 22 inches or shorter, require less power should be larger diameter. They can make up for their short comings by an abundance of small bubbles. Even though they can all eventually pull out about the same amount given time the larger the tank the faster you want it to be able to do this as you have more to be pulled out. My reef Dynamics INS 450 was rated for heavy stocked 450 gallon tank on my 300 gallon system I had to tune so it would not pull everything out before any of it broke down. It was not the most expensive for that size tank but then there are not any cheap ones that would ever work well for a 450 gallon tank. If you have a 125 gallon are smaller tank there is a large choice from cheap to very expensive that will work.
|sCRIBe|
Active Member
Yes def increase in volume and bubbles in creates I think pulls more out. The entire skimmer is a beast much larger volume/foot print. The entire skimmer is nearly slient which I like. I think like other people said the quality in the manufacturing is top tier. I'd also like to note that emptying the cup is super easy, it lifts right off unlike the vertex I had to screw off and on which was a pain.
Mindi
Active Member
I think your criteria are too narrow to make any judgement call.. for example I have had a Deltec for nearly 7 years of continuous running, it pulls heaps of skimmate, it is top shelf German brand, but it has been a noisy machine for most of its life and I am about to replace it with Chinese DC pump Coral Box because of noise more than anything. How much gunk you get depends mainly on how e=wet you skim...the wetter you skim the more you get even though that might be counter intuitive.
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