Do high end skimmers work more efficiently?

[Bruce Burnett]

I bought a Euro Reef skimmer I'd say about 14 years ago?? At the time this was a pretty high end skimmer with a price tag to match.

I still use it to this day and it still runs like a champ. It was not the most expensive skimmer at the time , but it was upper end for sure.

I asked a local LFS what skimmers he ran. He didn't tell me straight away so I took a sneak peak and he ran all Euro Reefs .

So then I told him " hey I want a Euro Reef " .... he just smiled and said sure.

My best purchase to date in the hobby in 18 years.

There are a lot of Euro Reef/Reef Dynamics in use I have an INS80 that I made some mods on and used it for years on a 180 gallon.

 

[T-Bucket]

I used to have a Reef Octopus Classic 202-S. it worked ok but it was very very loud. I upgraded to a Nyos Quantum 160 (which cost 2x what my Reef Octopus did) and it pulls out way more nasty stuff then my Reef Octopus did AND it's almost dead silent. You get what you pay for in this hobby.

 

[bif24701]

Ok... Here's another option that applies to this thread. Do 1 piece wine bottle skimmers, like the Reef Octopus Elite, work better than those "hybrid" skimmers like the Reef Octopus Regal or Aquamaxx that have a seam weld that could interfere with bubbles?

Right now I'm using the Aquamaxx Cone-S Q2 on a 93 cube, but was considering the RO Elite 200-int for my 180. I always thought a 1-piece acrylic unit would be more efficient that a unit with seams.

You guys are missing the point. Yes there is a difference, more expensive model may actually skim better:

However the point is: the difference in performance number 1 is very minor. The best skimmer tested was 30 effective in removing DOCs and the majority where ~25%. A difference of 5% doesn't account for a whole lot when both at the end of the day still proably removed about the same amount because as the DOC levels decrease so does production.
Number 2, the difference in effective DOC removal certainly doesn't account for a 500$ price difference.

In conclusion:
When shopping for a new skimmer you need to evaluate more than performance. You need to look at price, pump, build quality and rated volume in that order.

To better illustrate my point. I have a 180 reef and ran it for a year with a Super Reef Octopus-1000 Internal 5" skimmer. I upgraded to a SRO-5000 10" skimmer, much much larger skimmer. At the end of each day both pulled roughly the same amount of skimm, the 10" was a bit darker maybe but not by much. The 10" may have the capacity to handle more but it made no difference in my system. Consider that when researching skimmers. There is a limit to how much any skimmer can remove no matter what and buying a skimmer with a similar rating but 5% more effective probably will not make any difference in your system.

Of course every system is different and needs are different but I needed to make this point.

 

[ReefBeta]

As contact time is key to performance, then what about recirculation skimmer? I upgraded to Skimz SM122 half a year ago, and it did perform a lot better than my previous one. But my previous one is Reef Octopus HB90 HOB skimmer running in the sump, so that might not be the best comparing sample for a normal in sump skimmer...

 

[bif24701]

Double post

 

[Bengt]

Double post

There is no skimmer that beats Tunze 9410 doc DC or 9415 doc DC they are monster to skim, a lot of micro bubbles.

 

[Forsaken77]

You guys are missing the point. Yes there is a difference, more expensive model may actually skim better:

However the point is: the difference in performance number 1 is very minor. The best skimmer tested was 30 effective in removing DOCs and the majority where ~25%. A difference of 5% doesn't account for a whole lot when both at the end of the day still proably removed about the same amount because as the DOC levels decrease so does production.
Number 2, the difference in effective DOC removal certainly doesn't account for a 500$ price difference.

In conclusion:
When shopping for a new skimmer you need to evaluate more than performance. You need to look at price, pump, build quality and rated volume in that order.

To better illustrate my point. I have a 180 reef and ran it for a year with a Super Reef Octopus-1000 Internal 5" skimmer. I upgraded to a SRO-5000 10" skimmer, much much larger skimmer. At the end of each day both pulled roughly the same amount of skimm, the 10" was a bit darker maybe but not by much. The 10" may have the capacity to handle more but it made no difference in my system. Consider that when researching skimmers. There is a limit to how much any skimmer can remove no matter what and buying a skimmer with a similar rating but 5% more effective probably will not make any difference in your system.

Of course every system is different and needs are different but I needed to make this point.

The guy Jeff, from Lifereef told me that skimmers these days, with needlewheels, make bubbles to small, so they pop prematurely. He said he talked with skimmer manufactures at shows about this and they agreed with him but have to keep coming up with something new.

Also, that report puts different types of skimming methods against each other, not really skimmers using the same method. And fwiw, a 5" skimmer on a 180 is way to small, by a large margin. The reason your 10" is probably pulling darker is because the 5" misses so much, but like you said, not enough to impact the tank. My first saltwater tank didn't even use a skimmer!

It is said to match the skimmer to the tank. But when you have 1,400 gallons of flow draining, you would need almost a 10" or multi-pump skimmer to keep up. I think the reason skimmers don't do as well as they should is because most of the Sicce pumps in all of them only handle a small fraction of the water flowing by.

And yes, build quality with the skimmer is a huge part in the decision making. As I said, I was looking at the Reef Octopus Elite 200, currently their best skimmer line out, and there's the internal version with the external pump for $599, and the the space saving model for $799. I emailed CoralVue about why a space saving skimmer that produces less than an external pump skimmer (because of contact time) would be $200 more. They said it's because of the extra parts needed for the space saver. If that wasn't a load of crap! It's because they made the internal one so wide it won't fit most sumps and almost force you to the space saver. Luckily the internal will just barely fit my sump. I don't even need the dc pump it comes with. Imo, dc pumps are completely unnecessary on skimmers. The Elite is basically a clone of the Vertex with a dc pump and I think the pump is what adds most of the dollar value.

But yes, I base the cost on everything, not just performance. A lot has to do with after sale support. I'm not even a Reef Octopus fan. I was first considering the Icecap skimmer, also CoralVue but not RO, but the gph was too low for the size.

I have a FOWLR tank so I need more skim to get more pee out, especially in a heavy bioload situation.

 

[tigé21v]

It also appears I'd be better off buying a new pump for the reef dynamics vs a new reef octopus.

One of the best needle wheel skimmers I ever owned was a EuroReef (aka) Reef dynamics. Consistently pulled dark nasties. I really think it had something to do with the body/neck transition. I'd think a variable speed pump on that skimmer would be awesome.

 

[Joseph Pagnotta]

I have an Eshopps psk 150 skimmer on my 55 gallon reef. I paid 189.00 for it, its quiet and just simply works. There were many higher prices as well as Lower, but I have no Issues.
But remember "BUY CHEAP PAY TWICE"

 

[tigé21v]

The guy Jeff, from Lifereef told me that skimmers these days, with needlewheels, make bubbles to small, so they pop prematurely. He said he talked with skimmer manufactures at shows about this and they agreed with him but have to keep coming up with something new.

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. Smaller bubbles move slower through water, IME. I've seen bubbles so small that they move more horizontally than vertically. Jeff uses a Mazzei 784 or 1084 venturis on his skimmers IIRC. If there's no air restriction, the bubbles produced are a little on the larger side compared to most needle wheel skimmers. I think needlewheel skimmers tend to be shorter, so there is decreased contact time.

And fwiw, a 5" skimmer on a 180 is way to small, by a large margin.

Maybe a 5" needle wheel only 20" high, but I bet Jeff could build a 5" skimmer that would be more than capable of handling a 180 system. His would be more than 20" tall though.It's all about contact time.
I have a 6" MTC dual venturi that more than handles my 350 gallon system. It has a 36" body and pulls mud from the water. If I add on the 36" extension I have for it, it seems to do even better, even though the air draw drops off significantly. I have to think the same (or better) performance has to be due to the increased contact time. The 36" of height seems to be more than adequate for my current needs. And it's nice not to have to grab a step ladder to remove the collection cup for cleaning.
(As a side note, I've found that if I restrict the air flow slightly through the 684 venturis when not using the extension, I get smaller bubbles- and seemingly an increase in nasties removed. Although that may just be wishful thinking on my part.)
Yes, I know the skimmer is not as energy efficient as any on the market today. And no, it will not fit under an aquarium. But it does its job. And the 3 foot body full of swirling milk sure is cool.

 

[120reefkeeper]

One of the best needle wheel skimmers I ever owned was a EuroReef (aka) Reef dynamics. Consistently pulled dark nasties. I really think it had something to do with the body/neck transition. I'd think a variable speed pump on that skimmer would be awesome.

My Euro Reef is still kicking butt. After 14 years just replaced the pump. How much more could you ask for? [emoji41]

 

[madweazl]

My current 75g originally had a Bubble Magus Curve 5; the skimmer worked quite well but was extremely sensitive to water level changes within the sump. A difference of a quarter inch could make the difference between overflowing the cup and working perfect (or not at all). After a few months I replaced it with a Deltec SC1350 that had a much larger body and neck. It has been a fantastic skimmer; it works great and is a breeze to clean. With that said, parts availability for the Deltec is dismal at best; performance was degrading so I decided to buy a new pump and impeller. The pump arrived in a couple of days but it has been a month and a half and I still have no impeller. The skimmer still works but not like it used to. As for the tank and inhabitants, I haven't noticed any difference in the health of the system between the two skimmers representing considerably different spectrums in regard to cost but the ease of maintenance and consistency of the Deltec sure has been nice (now just if parts support were better in the US...).

 

[Robthorn]

Not to argue but you didn't agree with positive findings that you yourself made. If one skimmer pulls 5 ounces of light colored skimmate and another pulled out exactly 5 ounces of darker skimmate then the darker did more work. It just left more of your tank water than it would have if they were both matched to pull the same gunk per ounce.
I have a Bubble King now pretty much just because I always wanted one and the deal was right for me. I would not trade it for any other brand. Not that other don't work very well because many do. I have had everything from Mad dogs to the BK. Many Euro Reef models , Bubble Magus, Reef Octopus Elite and yes there is a difference. I plan to have this BK for 10 years or longer. I would not expect to have a lower build quality skimmer that long. Unless you put 3 or 6 pump replacements in the mix. Not my cup of tea.

You guys are missing the point. Yes there is a difference, more expensive model may actually skim better:

However the point is: the difference in performance number 1 is very minor. The best skimmer tested was 30 effective in removing DOCs and the majority where ~25%. A difference of 5% doesn't account for a whole lot when both at the end of the day still proably removed about the same amount because as the DOC levels decrease so does production.
Number 2, the difference in effective DOC removal certainly doesn't account for a 500$ price difference.

In conclusion:
When shopping for a new skimmer you need to evaluate more than performance. You need to look at price, pump, build quality and rated volume in that order.

To better illustrate my point. I have a 180 reef and ran it for a year with a Super Reef Octopus-1000 Internal 5" skimmer. I upgraded to a SRO-5000 10" skimmer, much much larger skimmer. At the end of each day both pulled roughly the same amount of skimm, the 10" was a bit darker maybe but not by much. The 10" may have the capacity to handle more but it made no difference in my system. Consider that when researching skimmers. There is a limit to how much any skimmer can remove no matter what and buying a skimmer with a similar rating but 5% more effective probably will not make any difference in your system.

Of course every system is different and needs are different but I needed to make this point.

 

[shred5]

I have been in the hobby a long time and have tried or beta tested allot of brands.

Does price mean something and I would say usually so with skimmers. There are skimmers that keep up but usually it is because of luck…

One thing is balance and that is what high end skimmers are. They spend money designing the needle wheels/impeller and volutes and making sure of proper water to air mixture. They make sure neck size is right for the amount of air. You do not get skimmer that overflows and is hard to dial in.



With most off the shelf skimmers is they use a stock pump with stock impeller and volute. They grab a size acrylic like 6 or 8” diameter and make a skimmer. Sometimes it equals a well performing skimmer sometimes it equals a touchy skimmer that is hard to set or overflows. Companies like Vertex are well known for this. One size model works well and then the next size up is impossible to get dialed in. That’s because they just throw a pump on a skimmer body.



Another thing with higher end skimmer is usually thier ratings are much closer to reality and you do not need to double the size of the skimmer to get real world results.



I have had a few lower priced skimmers like RLSS R6-I and the Aquamaxx ConeS CO-1 which has worked really well.



I would bet most people in here that replied never used one of the high-end brands. I see allot of people recommending in other threads skimmers that are not good and these people think they are good it just these people have never really tried a good skimmer.



So does price mean something not necessarily on performance but you can bet on the higher end skimmer performing at the top. I use the word high end and not expensive, not all high end skimmers are expensive either. You can bet most cheap skimmers are just that cheap, there are some medium priced skimmers that can come close in performance and some even keep up. That extra money usually goes into balancing the skimmer and giving it a little better performance. What you also get with higher end skimmers is higher quality skimmer and sometimes a better pump like a bubble king..

 

[MarsRover]

Those are good points. Quality of pump plays a big roll. I have no doubt paying more for a better pump means longer lifespan. I also Ike the ability to fully break down a skimmer and buy replacement parts.

Are bubbles really just bubbles? Can you put on any pinwheel pump rated at "x" or are these machines really precisely tuned for bubble size to match all variables involved, hence collecting more debris.

Another thing that could logically come in the play is that when you put the pump inside the body it's stealing area away from bubbles.

I'd be curious what type of engineers these companies have on their payroll. Any idiot can make a bubble catcher, especially one that just LOOKS like a protein skimmer (inverted cone). It will take physics and math to convince me beyond a $500 price tag for something of the caliber for a 300gal heavily stocked.

Bubbles are not just bubbles. Well, they are. But not all bubbles are created equal in the organics to water ratio they carry.

 

[ratherbfishin]

Following

 

[Ruben3]

I used to have a bubble magus nac 6, ran perfect for 5-6 years. This thing pulled amazing skimate and was more or less quiet, anyways my pump went out so decided to upgrade instead of purchasing the $60 replacement pump. I decided to look into DC powered skimmers and went with a Regal 150 SSS. After about a year of owning this skimmer, I've started looking into getting the replacement pump for my old bubble magus. I had nothing but issues with my regal 150sss, dc controller went bad twice, pump impeller went bad (no clue as to how or why), and eventually pump too. Customer service was pretty good overall, was able to get everything replaced eventually, but took a bit of time specially for the pump. After about 8 months of perfect operation I can officially say this skimmer has been a pain the butt to get dialed in. I tried adjusting the water height, air intake, dc pump speed, and anything I could think of but can't seem to get good consistent results from it. I'll get anything from no skimate to light skimate, to good dark skimate but I can never get a full cup out of the skimmer without the thing overflowing randomly. Its either constantly adjusting and messing with it or leave it untouched, but with little or no results. So now back to the $60 pump I should have bought a year ago. Just my .02....

 

[ratherbfishin]

I'm had a lot of different skimmers. Best I had was a tunze skimmer

 

[Laith]

I currently have a Deltec on my 250l tank and it does work very well.

I'll be upgrading my tank to a 1,800l over the next six months. All my equipment has to sit under the tank and the tank is in the living room. So besides performance for the health of the livestock, the second most important criteria for me is that the system needs to be as silent as possible.

I tested different equipment on a friend's large tank: return pumps, flow pumps and skimmers. In every case the higher the price, the quieter the equipment was. So I'm going with Tunze Streams, Red Dragon DC return pumps, a Red Dragon to run a manifold and a Bubble King skimmer (with a Red Dragon DC pump). With the Red Dragon return pumps I couldn't tell a difference in the sound level whether they were on or off!

I'm sure other makes would have done the job required and if I could have a sump room I would save quite a bit of money. But if you need both performance AND silent operation, unfortunately you have to pay more...

Laith

 

[lewis.maryann08]

I have a 80 gallon with alot of fish and i am looking for a nice skimmer and a affordable price any ideas ?