Hewbie is swimming upside down!

[AydenLincoln]

Ayden, Did you check all your water Parameters? I didn't see anything in this thread. Second, why do you think you have Flukes and how did you see them? Only one type can be seen (Neobenedenia)
after they drop off and it's next to impossible to spot them on Fish.

So to answer both your questions because I didn’t since I am catching up. Yes I saw a fluke(s) on the angelfish. And all parameters were checked and within range/normal. No ammonia, normal salinity, and temp etc. Nitrates are at 60 ppm. Not uncommon as Hewbie is a poop machine and being a fish only tank not a concerning number although I just changed the media and am making water for a water change soon. Mind you I just did one last week but he is a poop machine and well a puffer. Hewbie is the only one with these symptoms the angel just had a giant fluke on it. Something that I noticed and decided to treat for whether or not these have a relation to each other or one made one worse…I have no idea. Hewbie is not flashing or scratching and was not at the time breathing heavily. Now with the meds he is a bit more so are the other fish. But all my other fish are eating and acting normal.

 

[Fish Fan]

Ayden, if this was me personally, I'd lower the lighting and let him try to rest if he can. I know you want to watch him, but try to use something like very subdued red if your lighting allows for it. Or at least turn the intensity down and the blue up if you can.

Wishing you both the best of luck!

 

[AydenLincoln]

Ayden, if this was me personally, I'd lower the lighting and let him try to rest if he can. I know you want to watch him, but try to use something like very subdued red if your lighting allows for it. Or at least turn the intensity down and the blue up if you can.

Wishing you both the best of luck!

I did turn the lights completely off now.

 

[christinna77]

Is the vet able to offer a phone consultation in the meantime? It took some searching, but I eventually found a vet who treats fish and is willing to provide telemedicine in my area. She understands that transporting a fish (also about an hour drive) could be too stressful for it. I actually have an introductory call with her tomorrow, so I can understand the process better in case I have any emergencies in the future and need prescription only medications.

I'm also a bit concerned about adding different medications to the tank without a clear diagnosis. I completely understand that you're frightened and trying everything possible to help Hewbie. However, mixing medications can add stress or create further problems that make it harder to diagnose the root problem here, especially since you mentioned that the other fish are now breathing somewhat harder.

Maybe I missed something, but so far I've mostly seen a poor prognosis and possible causes, without much guidance on what to actually do in the meantime. Hopefully one of the fish medics can give you clearer advice on what you should or shouldn't do until the vet appointment, so you're not left guessing.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Is the vet able to offer a phone consultation in the meantime? It took some searching, but I eventually found a vet who treats fish and is willing to provide telemedicine in my area. She understands that transporting a fish (also about an hour drive) could be too stressful for it. I actually have an introductory call with her tomorrow, so I can understand the process better in case I have any emergencies in the future and need prescription only medications.

I'm also a bit concerned about adding different medications to the tank without a clear diagnosis. I completely understand that you're frightened and trying everything possible to help Hewbie. However, mixing medications can add stress or create further problems that make it harder to diagnose the root problem here, especially since you mentioned that the other fish are now breathing somewhat harder.

Maybe I missed something, but so far I've mostly seen a poor prognosis and possible causes, without much guidance on what to actually do in the meantime. Hopefully one of the fish medics can give you clearer advice on what you should or shouldn't do until the vet appointment, so you're not left guessing.

The one vet I’m talking to is through someone else and his speciality isn’t puffers. He suggested I tried burping him again which I will not be doing for a 3rd time because I think I determined he does not have an air bubble. Although to no fault of his I thought this could be the cause too. The other one was unable to offer any advice until I paid him. Personally I think he is a scam and he didn’t have the best reviews. But they both mentioned treating fish is incredibly complex and can be super difficult.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So I disagree with this but also we are talking about something that is frozen for months that isn’t a fish and farmed. There is a reason sushi-grade fish while a marketing term is flash frozen and kept frozen in a very cold freezer. Of course any process including cooking isn’t always going to guarantee you kill 100% of anything as people still get food poisoning from cooked food. Also don’t think it has any cause or relation to Hewbie’s current situation. As I mentioned it is possible it isn’t parasites and an entirely different issue. As mentioned numerous times Hewbie has been treated and always been thing and slender even prior to his mussel diet. This cause I believe to be completely different.

Ultra cold freezing kills metazoan parasites that can infect humans. Regular freezing for long term (a week or so) seems to also work. However, bacteria and certain protozoan cysts can survive freezing.

That said, in my entire career working at public aquariums, we never had a confirmed case where frozen food served as a vector for any disease except Mycobacteria.

Remember, parasites don't want to kill their host, because then they die as well. Many gut parasites can be handled by just feeding the fish more food. Nematodes that migrate to other internal organs are a different issue.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Ultra cold freezing kills metazoan parasites that can infect humans. Regular freezing for long term (a week or so) seems to also work. However, bacteria and certain protozoan cysts can survive freezing.

That said, in my entire career working at public aquariums, we never had a confirmed case where frozen food served as a vector for any disease except Mycobacteria.

Remember, parasites don't want to kill their host, because then they die as well. Many gut parasites can be handled by just feeding the fish more food. Nematodes that migrate to other internal organs are a different issue.

Thank you. I am happy to report he seems to be doing better not 100% but better.

 

[MichaelReefer]

Thank you. I am happy to report he seems to be doing better not 100% but better.

Any updates in the last six hours?

 

[C_AWOL]

Hewbie looks extremely thin for a puffer that only recently stopped eating. I suspect that the issues are likely neurological due to long term nutritional deficiencies. If he's taking any feed at all then I would suggest soaking whatever he will eat in selcon+vitachem assuming it isn't too late.

 

[BryanM]

Thank you. I am happy to report he seems to be doing better not 100% but better.

This is good news. I hope it gets better!

 

[AydenLincoln]

Any updates in the last six hours?

Will update when I get home. Still considering a trip to an aquatic vet tomorrow.

 

[AydenLincoln]

My update is I’m taking Hewbie tomorrow to an exotic animal vet! She has experience seeing all kinds of animals and fish. She went to University of Pennsylvania and sees all kinds of animals. Looking at reviews and her experience I’m putting a lot of trust in her. At the very least she can hopefully make a diagnosis and do some imaging on him. Maybe even sex him since the imaging is being done. I feel like I have exhausted all resources I can for him as an aquarist.

 

[BryanM]

My update is I’m taking Hewbie tomorrow to an exotic animal vet! She has experience seeing all kinds of animals and fish. She went to University of Pennsylvania and sees all kinds of animals. Looking at reviews and her experience I’m putting a lot of trust in her. At the very least she can hopefully make a diagnosis and do some imaging on him. Maybe even sex him since the imaging is being done. I feel like I have exhausted all resources I can for him as an aquarist.

Good luck!

 

[AydenLincoln]

Good luck!

Thank you. I told myself I would also be realistic that if this is genetic or a liver problem or something else than I know it won’t be curable but I want to do everything in my power to know and give him the best treatment. It also brings me peace to think of the life I gave him. It makes me sad though if this isn’t a curable or fixable disease.

 

[keagan]

Thank you. I told myself I would also be realistic that if this is genetic or a liver problem or something else than I know it won’t be curable but I want to do everything in my power to know and give him the best treatment. It also brings me peace to think of the life I gave him. It makes me sad though if this isn’t a curable or fixable disease.

You gave Hewbie the best care you could and you're going above and beyond seeking out an exotic vet. I wish I could say I've always done the same. You're a really good caretaker. I'm rooting for you guys!

 

[AydenLincoln]

Some new developments. Hewbie ate three shrimp and went tail up again! @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 I’m super curious your thoughts! I hope to get answers tomorrow. I still am wondering about something air or swim bladder related. I hate this rollercoaster! Ugh.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Hewbie looks extremely thin for a puffer that only recently stopped eating. I suspect that the issues are likely neurological due to long term nutritional deficiencies. If he's taking any feed at all then I would suggest soaking whatever he will eat in selcon+vitachem assuming it isn't too late.

I do already do this daily! I actually have always attributed it to him being a different kind of puffer build like people have different metabolisms and activity levels. He has always been on the skinner side although I do agree he is now incredibly thin. He has never ever been a round plump puffer and this is on a diet of 3 clams or 3 mussels a day. He also was quarantined in cooper when I got him, treated with metroplex, kanaplex, prazipro, etc. over the years and food soaks with selcon and garlic daily and he has never gained any weight. I have always attributed it to his natural build considering there is not much else I could be doing.

 

[Jimbo327]

Maybe he just needed to fart.

Hope he recovers fully. Good luck!

Really made my day hearing that Herbie is doing better. Fingers crossed.

 

[Paul B]

Ayden, in the sea those fish live almost exclusively on small crabs and worms. I have followed them for many hours underwater. I used to feed mine small live fiddler crabs that I collected but you can get them in a bait shop. Of course you have to live near the sea or they will not be available.

I don't think he is sick, just malnourished by living a long time eating inappropriate foods. Mussels are a great food, I even eat them myself and feed them to my fish, but they lack the calcium shell and roughage of a crab.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Ayden, in the sea those fish live almost exclusively on small crabs and worms. I have followed them for many hours underwater. I used to feed mine small live fiddler crabs that I collected but you can get them in a bait shop. Of course you have to live near the sea or they will not be available.

I don't think he is sick, just malnourished by living a long time eating inappropriate foods. Mussels are a great food, I even eat them myself and feed them to my fish, but they lack the calcium shell and roughage of a crab.

Thank you for this advice. I will switch his diet back to IQF crabs. I have over the years fed him these and cockles as well as many other foods. He just seems to get bored of foods very easily. Shrimp are his favorite!