Do I Just Have Very Bad Luck Or Are A Majority Of Fish Infected?

HotRocks

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Thank you! Why did I overlook that I should tag you with my questions? :) duh. LOL!
Around here it seems to be a trade secret. And each of them seem to think their supplier is superior.
There are only so many out there. They all cross paths, no secrets. Lol. The stores around me will tell you where they get the fish. Most of the stores around here order from the big wholesalers out west. Some use Carolina and ERI. I don't really know of any who transship near me. I think that @JaimeAdams does some transhipment orders.
 

Victoria M

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I wonder if they don't want you to find out that they all are using the same supplier.

I do feel that how the fish is received at the LFS plays a role. I was shocked when I saw how one LFS does it. The order comes in on a Wednesday morning. They temp acclimate on a cart (not sure for how long). Then they roll the cart to their sales floor, cut open the bags, scoop the fish out and sort them between their different tanks. An hour later the store opens and those fish are all still available.

All of the high demand fish are gone by Friday. I guess its a great business model for them because they get to minimize losses. They hardly have to feed any of them more than once.
This is what happens at all our LFS. My favorite long term LFS is switching away from 2 week QT to that practice because the consumer purchasing habits do not support his QT practice. THAT MAKES ME SIGH A BIG SAD SIGH. What are ya gonna do though. I do believe it was maybe his QT practice that made mine so successful in the past.
 

Victoria M

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There are only so many out there. They all cross paths, no secrets. Lol. The stores around me will tell you where they get the fish. Most of the stores around here order from the big wholesalers out west. Some use Carolina and ERI. I don't really know of any who transship near me. I think that @JaimeAdams does some transhipment orders.
I think I love shooting the breeze with them and have been friends with my favorite for so long...I dont know. Maybe I should be a more loyal customer? I love visiting all the fish stores that I like. Don't we all? Why do I feel guilty spending money at all the good ones?
 

Tamberav

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I have QT'd everything I have put into my DT over the last 6 months and so far have not had one batch of fish that did not have something. I have dealt with Ich three times, (now four actually) Velvet twice, Flukes three times, two bacterial diseases and two internal parasites. The good news is that I have gotten very good at treating my fish, (thanks to R2R and all the great people here) and have only lost two fish to disease. I have lost others due to not eating and others with absolutely no signs of disease and plenty of Blue/Green Chromis just disappeared on me, but only two fish have been killed by disease on my watch. :)

I got most of those fish from two different LFS's in AZ and a few at Petco, (and the Petco fish are all still alive). I decided to give Divers Den a try since I heard they put their fish through QT for a couple weeks and I was really sick of dealing with diseases. I paid a pretty penny for fish thinking they would be disease free and guess what...my new Whitetail Bristletooth Tang has Ich and at least one other fish has internal parasites! I am soooooooo sick of this and was just wondering if I am the most unlucky guy here or if others have had this experience? Please let me know your personal experiences and if this is normal or I just have bad luck.

Thanks for any input on this! :)
They don't treat the fish with copper.. etc... unless they show disease... they only keep them minimum two weeks... so yes you can get disease from DD pretty easy. What you are buying is conditioned fish that are eating (usually).... unfortunately they then go through shipping stress which can make stuff show up.

I have had internal parasites from them in blennies mostly....and brook on a damsel come in. Overall a good experience from LA and DD both but the quality of fish is similar to a good LFS.

DD/LA recommends QT ALL the fish you get from them because they can still have disease. All of this info is posted on their website.
 
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Manthanol

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I wonder if they don't want you to find out that they all are using the same supplier.

I do feel that how the fish is received at the LFS plays a role. I was shocked when I saw how one LFS does it. The order comes in on a Wednesday morning. They temp acclimate on a cart (not sure for how long). Then they roll the cart to their sales floor, cut open the bags, scoop the fish out and sort them between their different tanks. An hour later the store opens and those fish are all still available.

All of the high demand fish are gone by Friday. I guess its a great business model for them because they get to minimize losses. They hardly have to feed any of them more than once.
Very similar to a LFS here in Dallas, instead of acclimatizing in a cart the bags of new arrival are floated in their DTs during business hour and then netted into DTs they were floating on. They also get sold quickly by Friday or Saturday and the ones that don't get sold usually show some issues by Monday.
 

ScottB

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Very similar to a LFS here in Dallas, instead of acclimatizing in a cart the bags of new arrival are floated in their DTs during business hour and then netted into DTs they were floating on. They also get sold quickly by Friday or Saturday and the ones that don't get sold usually show some issues by Monday.
So if your LFS is not drip acclimating, then bring along your own refractometer and test the LFS water versus your own. Wholesaler water (IME) is 1.018 to 1.022. Really low. I suppose they have their reasons. Probably suppresses parasite activity, IDK.

Based on your water Sg test, you should either not buy (because the fish is stressed without acclimation to higher Sg) or drip for a LONG time yourself. My LFS drips for 2 hours to enter 1.024 store water.
 
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Bassmaster116

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So im still pretty new, had a tank in highschool(had no clue to what i was doing, probably still dont.) since then i had been out of the hobby untill january. I initially bought a 36g bow front, and hated it so i upgraded to a 40b. On my 36g i ran uv, it was a small green machine but uv nonetheless. When i transferred into the 40b and got a sump i never put the uv back in(not sure why) and at the same time i also bought a wrasse. The wrasse seemed to harass my clowns and goby shortly after i noticed this i lost both of my clowns. So i went out and replaced them with some new ones.... lost those. Finally ended up returning the wrasse to my lfs and also added a larger UV. Now i have a 75g with 40b sump and a 55w UV set to a low flow. Haven’t lost a fish to disease only one to the overflow. That being said i read a thread on here about essentially “building a tolerance” which im sort of a believer. Not sure what exactly took care of my issues but those are maybe just some things to consider. Also yes i understand UV wont kill disease or parasites but only slow them if they are in the free floating stage, but what if its enough to slow them so said fish can build immunity to them?
 

Bassmaster116

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So im still pretty new, had a tank in highschool(had no clue to what i was doing, probably still dont.) since then i had been out of the hobby untill january. I initially bought a 36g bow front, and hated it so i upgraded to a 40b. On my 36g i ran uv, it was a small green machine but uv nonetheless. When i transferred into the 40b and got a sump i never put the uv back in(not sure why) and at the same time i also bought a wrasse. The wrasse seemed to harass my clowns and goby shortly after i noticed this i lost both of my clowns. So i went out and replaced them with some new ones.... lost those. Finally ended up returning the wrasse to my lfs and also added a larger UV. Now i have a 75g with 40b sump and a 55w UV set to a low flow. Haven’t lost a fish to disease only one to the overflow. That being said i read a thread on here about essentially “building a tolerance” which im sort of a believer. Not sure what exactly took care of my issues but those are maybe just some things to consider. Also yes i understand UV wont kill disease or parasites but only slow them if they are in the free floating stage, but what if its enough to slow them so said fish can build immunity to them?
also i did used to QT. I do not QT anymore, im not saying to do so but this is just how i do it and its been working
 

Darth.Daddy12

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I have QT'd everything I have put into my DT over the last 6 months and so far have not had one batch of fish that did not have something. I have dealt with Ich three times, (now four actually) Velvet twice, Flukes three times, two bacterial diseases and two internal parasites. The good news is that I have gotten very good at treating my fish, (thanks to R2R and all the great people here) and have only lost two fish to disease. I have lost others due to not eating and others with absolutely no signs of disease and plenty of Blue/Green Chromis just disappeared on me, but only two fish have been killed by disease on my watch. :)

I got most of those fish from two different LFS's in AZ and a few at Petco, (and the Petco fish are all still alive). I decided to give Divers Den a try since I heard they put their fish through QT for a couple weeks and I was really sick of dealing with diseases. I paid a pretty penny for fish thinking they would be disease free and guess what...my new Whitetail Bristletooth Tang has Ich and at least one other fish has internal parasites! I am soooooooo sick of this and was just wondering if I am the most unlucky guy here or if others have had this experience? Please let me know your personal experiences and if this is normal or I just have bad luck.

Thanks for any input on this! :)
Majority are infected for most. That’s why one fish costs $10 at one place and $30 at another cause one already spent the time and money to make sure it wasn’t sick. Cheaper fish always equals sicker fish. Biggest cost in selling fish is QT. If the price is low they didn’t take the time to QT and med in house. Or if they did when another fish in that tank got something they still released the other for sale cause it didn’t show signs..
 

ScottB

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You have to realize that most fish go into a wholesale system before going to a retailer and at that point anything is possible
So little transparency in the wholesale business. I am not suggesting there is a excessive greed in the business -- in fact I feel like they are barely making it. Certainly not an industry I would invest in.

Any advice on how we should evaluate the fish "in store", and how we should acclimate the fish "in home" to insure higher survival rates? I appreciate this is a generalization based on the range of sourcing/wholesaling/retailing behaviors, but anything to help us keep these beautiful animals in good health is cool. Take your time.
 
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Bleigh

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I wonder..... Is it possible for some parasites to attach to a fish (or in its gills or even in the intestinal track) in the encysted stage? This may help explain some of the unexplained outbreaks. I totally just thought of this and it may be completely dumb.

My LFS does a lot of qt'ing and treatment of fish before they sale them. People complain that they're prices are higher, but in my experience only by a dollar or two, and it's worth it to be able to bring fish home and not have to worry about qt myself.
 

Wings317

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I had a stretch like this as well and lost many fish. Most came from saltwaterfish.com. That place has terrible customer service and have no luck. I did live aquaria and that did ok. Most of whats left came from a top lfs here. I did loose a racoon butterfly out of the blue a week ago. No sign of disease prior. And no matter how many green chromis i restock, they just disappear. It is very odd.

I want to add a few prize fish, but am nervous as hell to order online or even go to the lfs.
 

ScottB

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Don't feel too bad about green chromis deaths. Genetically, they are all serial killers of their own species over time. In fact, as of this morning, my game of thrones survivor killed his last tank mate.
 

Wings317

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What is “CP”?
My experience with LA hasn't been as bad as LFS. About half of my LA fish came with internal parasite but did not show any other symptoms. LFS experience has been a lot worse. My last 3 purchases from two LFS came down with velvet. I've never had any issues before with their fish but now I do. Seems to me the quality has suffered a lot for the last 2-3 years and now I just treat them prophylactic. As an example, last week I got 2 gobies from LFS, both looked great, got them to eat on the first day and CP went in on the second day. On the third day i noticed the fins were tattered and on the fourth day I noticed velvet(maybe it was there on the third day, hard to see on white gobies). The CP worked well and on day 5/6 the dusting disappeared. I also treat my LA arrivals with CP or copper ASAP.
 
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