Do what I say not what I do...

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ScottF

ScottF

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Though I just have to shake my head when I think back to some of the stuff I used to do when I first setup a reef tank back in 2008. Some of the trends I chased and methods I tried... It's hard to put myself back in those shoes.
 

melev

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Thank you for responding and pointing out what I got wrong. Again this wasn't specifically about you, but I guess I did call you out specifically and I appreciate you taking the time to respond. It was more of what I perceived as a general trend from youtubers to scoff at the ability of newer reefers.

Again you say it's not for newbies. I think my problem with that statement is probably what we define as newbies. If someone just setup a tank a month ago and is still trying to grasp the absolute basics of reefing than I agree that person probably should not be dosing based on ICP testing. They need to establish a foundation of knowledge that they can build on.

I guess in my mind I was thinking that there is so much to learn about so many topics with reefing that someone who has been reefing for a year and has a thriving reef tank could still be called a newbie. When someone refers to a beginner in reefing, I'm not thinking of the person that just mixed their first batch of saltwater.

Once they have the basics down and have done a ton of research, I still think that the best time to learn and fine tune something like this is before they have $10,000+ in livestock residing in their tank, but that is just my opinion. Hopefully we will learn from our mistakes if we screw it up.

That's a valid point about the definition of newbie. My previous experience as a saltwater aquarist prior to 1997 was the one time as an 11-year-old kid who had a 20g Long next to his bed, as well as helping my father with his two saltwater aquariums. In 1997, I shopped for and purchased the same gear my dad had used, because I didn't know the difference. Things change? No way.

It was 2002 that I really started to learn a ton, so my first 5 years what little I'd experienced was limited to visiting the LFS and hanging out in newsgroups, which came way before there were forums.

I'd say by 2008, I was far from being a newbie. I had attended MACNA annually for five years, sat through the educational presentations, learned about the products from the manufacturers in the vendors hall, and was very active in my local club. Going to monthly meetings, hearing talks, learning more... I acquired a solid foundation from the experts that helped me become a solid hobbyist. In those years, I documented what I learned on my website and my build thread on RC, sharing both the good and the bad.

What I've shared over the past 10+ years on Youtube has been all encompassing, and I've covered nearly every topic you can imagine at this point. I have over 750 videos published, reaching millions of viewers. I don't use a script, as I like to keep it conversational. Pet peeve: I hate it when I see the person's (on-camera) eyes moving back and forth reading a teleprompter, it's super obvious to me.

You also mentioned:

"Though I just have to shake my head when I think back to some of the stuff I used to do when I first setup a reef tank back in 2008. Some of the trends I chased and methods I tried... It's hard to put myself back in those shoes."

And that's the point. A person that has been doing this for a year is still very new. And a person that has kept their aquarium running four years has that singular experience to fall back on, but nothing more. They've learned about a limited collection of corals and fish; that is their report card.

Can they learn more and do more? YES. If anything, you need to do more to keep it interesting and avoid reefing boredom.

Bottom line, when I make a point about who should be doing what, it's meant in a helpful way, not in a derogatory way.
 
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That's a valid point about the definition of newbie. My previous experience as a saltwater aquarist prior to 1997 was the one time as an 11-year-old kid who had a 20g Long next to his bed, as well as helping my father with his two saltwater aquariums. In 1997, I shopped for and purchased the same gear my dad had used, because I didn't know the difference. Things change? No way.

It was 2002 that I really started to learn a ton, so my first 5 years what little I'd experienced was limited to visiting the LFS and hanging out in newsgroups, which came way before there were forums.

I'd say by 2008, I was far from being a newbie. I had attended MACNA annually for five years, sat through the educational presentations, learned about the products from the manufacturers in the vendors hall, and was very active in my local club. Going to monthly meetings, hearing talks, learning more... I acquired a solid foundation from the experts that helped me become a solid hobbyist. In those years, I documented what I learned on my website and my build thread on RC, sharing both the good and the bad.

What I've shared over the past 10+ years on Youtube has been all encompassing, and I've covered nearly every topic you can imagine at this point. I have over 750 videos published, reaching millions of viewers. I don't use a script, as I like to keep it conversational. Pet peeve: I hate it when I see the person's (on-camera) eyes moving back and forth reading a teleprompter, it's super obvious to me.

You also mentioned:

"Though I just have to shake my head when I think back to some of the stuff I used to do when I first setup a reef tank back in 2008. Some of the trends I chased and methods I tried... It's hard to put myself back in those shoes."

And that's the point. A person that has been doing this for a year is still very new. And a person that has kept their aquarium running four years has that singular experience to fall back on, but nothing more. They've learned about a limited collection of corals and fish; that is their report card.

Can they learn more and do more? YES. If anything, you need to do more to keep it interesting and avoid reefing boredom.

Bottom line, when I make a point about who should be doing what, it's meant in a helpful way, not in a derogatory way.

I do have to say that good information is easier to find now than it was back in 2002 when you were first learning or even in 2008 when I started. All I had was my LFS, reefcentral and saltwaterfish.com forums. There was a ton of bad information on both of those forums and I can't say that my LFS always gave the best advice. RIP Exotic Aquariums on Bird Road.

There is still a ton of bad information out there and a lot of stuff driven by marketing, but I think it is easier to find good information from reputable people like yourself these days on youtube and various guest speakers at shows.

I think I've learned more in the past six months with this new tank than I did in the six or seven years of keeping a reef back in the reefcentral days. Though the lessons I learned through experience back then like don't make it snow in your tank with a kalk stirrer are probably more deeply ingrained in me.
 

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What a long winded aggressive thread hahaha. There are thousands of ways to do the same things and it doesn't matter how long you've done it it changes every year in one way or another. Cool you got back into it, good luck.
 

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I have been taking setting up and taking care of reef tanks for others for about 30 years. I feel fairly confident in my understanding and ability to apply my understanding to keeping a reef tank healthy and growing.

But I am very reluctant to give advice on here, because what I can get away with might crash a typical hobbyist’s tank.

Not to mention, there are plenty of people on this forum who are way better at reef tanks than I am, and way better at giving advice than I am, so I let them handle that stuff.
30 years setting up and maintaining reefs probably makes you one of the most qualified people here. Dont sell yourself short.

I get what you mean about what works for you may crash someone's tank.
 
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ScottF

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What a long winded aggressive thread hahaha.


Wasn't intended to be as aggressive or longwinded. lol. My cat rolled over on my keyboard and posted before I had my thoughts together and I never really recovered.

I think what I was originally trying to say I guess is that there are two types of "beginner".

Beginner A decides one day that they are going to setup a fish tank and goes to the store and says, "I'll take that one". This person has done no research. They just decided they wanted it and they went and got it. This was me in 2008 when I setup my first reef tank.

Beginner B decides one day that they are going to setup a fish tank. They spend weeks watching videos around the clock and reading articles about reefing. They gain a pretty good understanding about basic reef chemistry and husbandry. Then they purchase the aquarium and equipment needed to support it. This was me in 2024 after being out of the hobby for almost a decade.

So with that being said, I think it is okay for a beginner who has done their research and understands how to maintain proper reef chemistry to try things like dosing based on ICP or dosing kalk to chase the pH dragon as long as they understand the risks.

They just need to do the research and be careful.
 

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