Does fat equal health in fish?

[GoVols]

Fish DO suffer from overfeeding and diets high in fat. Fatty liver disease is a thing with fish where fatty tissue deposits around the organs and can cause longterm health issues.

However, that doesn't mean that they should be skinny either. Both extremes should be avoided.

Thank you

@OrionN

Great thread... :)

 

[MabuyaQ]

Under normal conditions fish store reserves (as fat) in their liver. So once fat starts to be stored in other tissues fish are obese. At that point liverfat becomes detrimental for long term health and even dangerous as many toxic metals are stored/accumilated in this liverfat.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I wish I could weigh in (get it). I am still waiting for my vlamingi tang lipid and liver function tests to come back.

“fat human are not healthy and have shorter life than slim and fit human” this is a broad statement. In general maybe but not always.

 

[saltyhog]

The liver is one of several ways animals (and humans) get rid of waste and toxic things they take in. Fat content in the liver doesn't increase heavy metals (think mercury) and other bad stuff in humans, it is the result of the bad stuff. When the liver is damaged the functional tissue is replaced with fat. Fatty liver in humans at least just means the liver has been insulted by something. One of the reasons for the liver damage certainly can be too much fat in the diet/high cholesterol numbers as @eatbreakfast pointed out.

Since we can't do a CT on our fish it's hard to know when our fish are "too fat". I suspect it may have to do with what we feed even more than how much we feed. For that reason I try to vary what I feed as much as possible.

I commonly see fish that impress me as very fat in nature. I'll try to find some of those videos/pictures when I get off work.

 

[eatbreakfast]

“fat human are not healthy and have shorter life than slim and fit human” this is a broad statement. In general maybe but not always.

But isn't the question raised in this thread a broad question? So giving an answer or comparison that is a generalization certainly fits...

 

[Abhishek]

@OrionN - excellent pics and super healthy fishes my friend .

Obesity in fishes used to be an infrequent but sometimes discussed when I used to keep discus . The concept of power feelings of BHM ( beef heart mix) around 3-5 times a day coupled with multiple water changes was the norm to get super growth out fo discus .

This extreme high protein diets lead to obesity and often double chinned discus and trust me when I say - you would pay at least 3-5 times the price for a breeding couple with multiple chins .

However , as with any process , there are consequences . While such high protein rich food brought in extreme swift growth , it was discussed and believed that it came with a price -
over longer time , it resulted in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver, ultimately leading to premature death. It was believed that in essence a discus that is fed a less than ideal diet and that dies at the ripe old age of 5-10 yrs, may have possibly reached 15-20 yrs (or longer) with a more properly balanced diet.

In fact many of the world renowned discus breeders I know now , tend to feed their fishes just right amount of balanced diet instead of only BHM which includes even mangoes , spinach , boiled peas . They also religiously follow a day of starvation .

Sorry to bore you with facts from discus world.
While some of it may apply , you cannot disregard the fact that your fishes have to perform against the crazy flow you have in the tank as compared to still water in discus tanks .

Interested to know your feeding regime and foods used .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Jay Z]

Personally, I think a fishes body can adapt to its environment, water flow, and diet.

Channel cats are slim and muscular in the shipping channel in lake huron.
They are fat with pot bellies in the river. Both get huge and live a long time. Both are healthy and put up a excellent fight. Lake cats are a bright silver/blue, river cats are brownish/mud colored. Same species, just different environments.

 

[OrionN]

I wish I could weigh in (get it). I am still waiting for my vlamingi tang lipid and liver function tests to come back.

“fat human are not healthy and have shorter life than slim and fit human” this is a broad statement. In general maybe but not always.

I should said:
"fat human are not healthy and have shorter life, on average, than slim and fit human"
My apology.

 

[Peace River]

Here is a link to an article about Fatty Liver Disease in Captive Marine Fishes.

 

[Jase4224]

I have only snorkelled a couple of times on the GBR but both times was amazed by how ‘thick’ the reef fish were.

I think fish are meant to eat constantly BUT they are also meant to swim and fight currents a lot too.

I believe that multiple feeds a day (2+) along with good flow for exercise where the fish literally has to fight the current for at least a few hours a day should give healthy fish.

A day of fasting is an interesting idea that applies to mammals, I wonder if it can help fish also?

 

[ca1ore]

It is funny (to me at least) when people equate 'fat and happy' with fish health and tank success. I suspect the former is not good and the latter mostly inscrutable. I feed my fish so that their ribs don't show, but not so much that they are bursting at the seams.

 

[OrionN]

@OrionN - excellent pics and super healthy fishes my friend .

Obesity in fishes used to be an infrequent but sometimes discussed when I used to keep discus . The concept of power feelings of BHM ( beef heart mix) around 3-5 times a day coupled with multiple water changes was the norm to get super growth out fo discus .

This extreme high protein diets lead to obesity and often double chinned discus and trust me when I say - you would pay at least 3-5 times the price for a breeding couple with multiple chins .

However , as with any process , there are consequences . While such high protein rich food brought in extreme swift growth , it was discussed and believed that it came with a price -
over longer time , it resulted in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver, ultimately leading to premature death. It was believed that in essence a discus that is fed a less than ideal diet and that dies at the ripe old age of 5-10 yrs, may have possibly reached 15-20 yrs (or longer) with a more properly balanced diet.

In fact many of the world renowned discus breeders I know now , tend to feed their fishes just right amount of balanced diet instead of only BHM which includes even mangoes , spinach , boiled peas . They also religiously follow a day of starvation .

Sorry to bore you with facts from discus world.
While some of it may apply , you cannot disregard the fact that your fishes have to perform against the crazy flow you have in the tank as compared to still water in discus tanks .

Interested to know your feeding regime and foods used .

Regards,
Abhishek

I feed Nori, 1.5 10"X10" sheet in 3 clips for my fishes. about 1/3 cubic inch frozen Mysis with flake mixed with about 1/3 teaspoon flakes, mixture of Omega One flakes, in AM and my auto feeder feed pellets 4 times a day during the day. Otohime size C1. Sometime I feed them when I go home at night. The Nori are all consumed during the day.

I am contemplate of feeding the fish 8 times a day during the day. I got an additional feeder for this already and will start this soon. Of course I will decrease the amount each time, and will cut back on the Nori and the frozen and flakes in AM.

 

[WVNed]

My fish aren't fat and neither are my dogs. They aren't thin. They look like they are supposed to.

 

[Big G]

I blame @jsker for my fat and happy fish :D His fish "smoothies" have greatly increased the girth of a couple of my fish. Or maybe they are just "big boned" as my mom used to say about me. LOL :eek::rolleyes:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/preparing-frozen-foods-for-my-fish-and-corals.300448/#post-3677350

 

[Big G]

My fish aren't fat and neither are my dogs. They aren't thin. They look like they are supposed to.

;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious

 

[VR28man]

I have a lawnmower blenny in a tank with a good amount of GHA.

Ever since I introduced him two months ago, his belly has been full full full full full……



At the same time, I see him swim straight into the flow of an MP 40, just about every day when when TSM goes on higher settings. Apparently trying to burn off his calories.... :D:D

He also has some unusual colors for a lawnmower blenny, but I attribute that to @ATI North America blue T5s......

 

[count krunk]

the tangs angels clowns etc i have seen while snorkeling have all been quite chubby :). Especially the tangs and angels.

 

[Big G]

Fish on a treadmill?

 

[siggy]

I Like Fat Fish and I can not lie ;Singing

Not to derail this tread BUTT;)
I will eat pellet raised (farm-pond) catfish, wild caught is full of metals and taste like mud. The toxins are stored in FATTY tissue and like most is BELLY fat. The Great Lakes has had health advisory's for years. Same goes with predatory saltwater fish, Sword fish, tuna, store toxins in these fatty regions and the older the fish the more fat, toxins and metals.

 

[hart24601]

A very interesting question. Ultimately a fat fish probably isn’t as healthy, however with the poor condition many fish arrive in, and the prevalence of disease in the hobby I would say that for hobby reasons a fat fish is healthier just based on the indication it exists in an environment where it is eating (low stress, low competition), clearly doesn’t have a large parasite load if the fat is not just a big belly, and has remained relatively disease free and has acclimated to captivity.


So while inherently it seems unlikely fat fish is healthier, for our hobby purposes a fat fish indicates great husbandry which is far more important to fish health.