Does hydrogen peroxide clear the water? Wow!

[gtbarsi]

That is awesome!
Is that 1ml / day, and are you been putting it in to a high flow area, or in/around this rock?
Have there been any studies regarding the safe dosing levels, duration, etc?

 

[reefwiser]

Brandon429. Yes I learned about Oxydator from German aquarist at MACNA many years ago. I also read all the German and Dutch forums as well as being honorary member of several of the European clubs.

 

[brandon429]

They're amazing. The forests you all cultivate! I have tried since 1996 to attain their look in micro tanks and cannot lol

constant challenge.

 

[Maximus]

heres a rock i treated with zoas on it. first pic is right before treatment. second is the next day. and the third is a week after treatment.



no loss besides some pods that were in the algae. ive been dosing 1 ml of 3% h202 per 10 gallons for a month or so now and have had great results so far. im not responsible for others results. just wanted to share a little of my experience.

Were you dosing daily? If so, how much/day? I'm guessing around 7-10 ml/day? Were you spot treating the algae or just dosing the peroxide into the tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It does Randy I am sure you have used the device since it has been a part of aquarium keeping since the 60's.

So you (or someone) have compared it for things like killing dinoflagellates or algae to direct addition of the same amount of hydrogen peroxide?

 

[shecter]

i dose 9ml a day. i shut the flow down in the display and inject it into the areas that are algae covered. i wait until it stops putting little bubbles up and return the tank to normal. ive noticed a decline in algae throughout the tank, and the areas that are directly treated show drastic results with no ill effect noticed. ive treated directly around acros, between zoas and mushrooms, and next to acans and chalices. zoas and palys usually close up for a few minutes up to an hour or more but always open when the lights come on the next day looking much healthier. you also need some form of nutrient export when killing off the algae. i do additional water changes and my skimmer pulls alot more than normal. again only my particular experience i dont want to be responsible for someone killing a tank.

 

[Maximus]

i dose 9ml a day. i shut the flow down in the display and inject it into the areas that are algae covered. i wait until it stops putting little bubbles up and return the tank to normal. ive noticed a decline in algae throughout the tank, and the areas that are directly treated show drastic results with no ill effect noticed. ive treated directly around acros, between zoas and mushrooms, and next to acans and chalices. zoas and palys usually close up for a few minutes up to an hour or more but always open when the lights come on the next day looking much healthier. you also need some form of nutrient export when killing off the algae. i do additional water changes and my skimmer pulls alot more than normal. again only my particular experience i dont want to be responsible for someone killing a tank.

Thanks Shecter. That was very helpful. How long have you been dosing peroxide?

 

[shecter]

your welcome. i believe its been about a month and a half.

 

[reefwiser]

So you (or someone) have compared it for things like killing dinoflagellates or algae to direct addition of the same amount of hydrogen peroxide?

Of coarse Randy as I said I have been using these devices since the 90's.

 

[jleblanc26]

Elevated mag levels worked for me. Slowly brought it up to around 1600 and hair algae started turning white and was never seen from again. Now on to this cyano, lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Of coarse Randy as I said I have been using these devices since the 90's.

What exactly have you used it to do?

 

[reefwiser]

Keep my water crystal clean and keep cyno and algae issues from occurring mainly

 

[brandon429]

That's what I've read as the universal response across forums and videos. This is my take on bulk thread post anecdote validity:

how many people online support use of the eco aqualyzer today for reef tanks I know you remember that 2002 gem Randy
it had been ran through the exact same gamut as refugia, ats by santa monica, carbon boosting, all our trends. battling over two primary molecules, nitrate and phosphate, gave us the ability to critique by testing after the setup ourselves.

aqualyzer was ran through the collective rc poster world of critics and found not working anecdotally, meaning a hundred regular joes posted nitrate readings unaffected and the notion of using magnets for denitrification was abandoned. its thriving in the hot tub market amazingly however

then I contrast that to German reefkeepers who write in their online threads of the difference it made in sensitive bee tanks, in hoards of positive reviews, I just put in YouTube german bee tank oxydator and hit up some of the comments for patterns.

What eludes us and keeps the oxydator and any other peroxide use in perma anecdote is nobody claims it cleaves a nitrate molecule. .. no test params to dissect. They just keep posting algae cure pics en masse and have no data to show how it is attained. The best formal review of reef tank oxidizer use will hopefully illuminate that gap of understanding. We have always been aware peroxide is a chemically bad thing to put in a tank, but people's after pics and no loss testimonies are numbering in the multi thousands now, anecdote is creeping up to legitimacy here we need to know why. The after pic page 2 x10,000 is driving the anecdote. That and a few diligent carnival barkers

 

[jedimasterben]

Keep my water crystal clean and keep cyno and algae issues from occurring mainly

So if you discontinued use of it right this moment, how long would it take before your tank water becomes yellowed and covered in cyanobacteria/algae?

 

[shecter]

posting the process taken and results achieved and pictures of that progress is data. 99% of us dont have a lab to send samples or have multiple tanks to do controlled studies. so we gather the information we have in hope that some of it will make sense for the bigger picture. i dont believe it gets rid of any molecules. only changes them into a liquid form thats easier to export through water changes and skimming.

 

[reefwiser]

It would tanke as long as any tank that doesn't use it. it the issue I find a lot with items used around the world but never catch on here in the USA. It is too simple a device. I will have to do a documented Test to prove it too you. As the device has been used in breeding and culturing of sensitive anmnals since the 60's and it is used around the world but not much in the USA because we did not invent it.

 

[brandon429]

There is one funny double standard in reefing, its this:

"why use peroxide, its a bandaid. if you dont use and the wastes dissolved build up, you could have been dealing with those wastes ahead of time"

and Id offer the same to any ATS or refugium user or GFO user, go ahead and take those offline and handle the waste as has been done since the dawn of tank keeping, manual water changes. and true export.

After all, gfo is just a bandaid for providing phosphate sinks in the reef aquarium, you should be exporting it pre proteinic breakdown (dont b lazy man)

Also take your skimmer offline as well, dont need it. Water changes mitigate every form of cheat in a reeftank, so anything shy of that is a dang rotten cheat.



whatever gets results is totally legit in reefkeeping.

 

[jedimasterben]

It would tanke as long as any tank that doesn't use it. it the issue I find a lot with items used around the world but never catch on here in the USA. It is too simple a device. I will have to do a documented Test to prove it too you. As the device has been used in breeding and culturing of sensitive anmnals since the 60's and it is used around the world but not much in the USA because we did not invent it.

I realize that it has been around for over twice as long as ive even been alive, but I can't find any data that it does most of what it is claimed to do. Oxygenation is a great thing, but I don't think it is so critical in these applications that they're just that much better for it. I have no issues with cyanobacteria or nuisance algae and have never used an Oxydator, so saying that if you removed it and changed nothing else and you would get cyano as fast as the next tank wouldn't really work out.

 

[UK_Pete]

Is anyone saying peroxide removes / changes nitrate? I never heard that one if so, and I never thought it would be possible. Is that the suggestion?

I'm slightly interested in peroxide myself but its for the organic breakdown role rather than anything else. Additionally I read recently that when used in saltwater with UV it creates an extremely powerful oxidiser which might break down the more refractory organics (but don't get too excited as Randy has said he doubts this would be particularly useful in reef tanks). But I do wonder if people who are dosing peroxide and using UV units too are getting an effect they don't know about and if it does oxidise organics, it might be an extra boost to water clarity (but probably no more than things like ozone). And Randy said in this thread he thinks its likely that peroxide breaks down organics (I think the point is he just dosent think its the only way, or the best way, to get rid of organics).

I stopped carbon dosing recently (to increase nitrates and phosphates) and my water clarity has definitely gone downhill. I got a bottle of H2O2 and will start dosing a little to see if it increases clarity. Far as I can see, the organics H2O2 would break down would be converted to CO2, water, nitrate and phosphate (and some trace elements), although since H2O2 is not that powerful an oxidiser it probably wont do this entire conversion itself, but if you read Randys articles he points out that the job is sometimes started with an oxidiser like ozone or peroxide and then finished by bacteria. Whether this really does result in free minerals (ie nitrate and phosphate) or whether the minerals are used by the bacteria that finish the job I dont know. If the latter, maybe they will be skimmed out (not my current intention because I want to keep the mineral nitrate and phosphate in the water at the mo).

As for the oxydator though, surely its simply to increase oxygen in the water. The whole point of it seems to be to keep the peroxide out of the water to avoid harming things with the aggressive oxidising radicals from the H2O2. Increased oxygen is probably a good thing but is this not a totally different matter?

 

[brandon429]

i was stating that if it did have a measurable effect on nitrate we could measure it better...it just has an after effect on algae making the tank look great (pics on page two) and that leaves a lot of room for guessing how that was attained.

if you are curious about what we do know of tank interactions at the macro level regarding adding peroxide to a running reef, heres some opinions:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ma...42-reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread.html


there are some animals that can die at any dilution, lysmata being the worst and not much else.