Does my gramma have flukes?

[WillyWicked]

Hey gang so I have 3 green chromis, 2 clownfish, a six line wrasse, a midas blenny, a clown goby and a royal gramma. Everything has been wonderful until today. I couldnt find the gramma this morning and finally found him DEEP under a rock. I know they hide in holes but he dug a DEEP one. When he finally came out, he began flashing on the sand and rocks. I saw a bit of his tail was missing and his scales lost coloration. I did a freshwater dip but havent seen any flukes. The dip looks to have worked tho because he stopped flashing and acts totally normal. He hant been breathing weridly. Is there another way to know if he does in fact have flukes or should I look for another reason for his behavior...? Here are some pics. Thanks!

P.S. problem is I have too many fish to put in a 10G quarantine tank, I have corals an anemones. Also Im Canadien so meds are banned.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey gang so I have 3 green chromis, 2 clownfish, a six line wrasse, a midas blenny, a clown goby and a royal gramma. Everything has been wonderful until today. I couldnt find the gramma this morning and finally found him DEEP under a rock. I know they hide in holes but he dug a DEEP one. When he finally came out, he began flashing on the sand and rocks. I saw a bit of his tail was missing and his scales lost coloration. I did a freshwater dip but havent seen any flukes. The dip looks to have worked tho because he stopped flashing and acts totally normal. He hant been breathing weridly. Is there another way to know if he does in fact have flukes or should I look for another reason for his behavior...? Here are some pics. Thanks!

based on tail and type of fish you have- this points to aggression damage and prime suspects would be clowns and 6-line wrasse who are known aggressors. Separating the gramma into an acclimation box will offer best recovery OR isolate the culprits for a couple of weeks. One way to determine the culprit is at feeding time . . . .
set your cell phone on video mode for about 30 mins and drop a little food and walk away - YOU MUST walk away as they know youre there. Often the aggressor is a bully at feeding time.
Review the video and see who it may be

 

[WillyWicked]

based on tail and type of fish you have- this points to aggression damage and prime suspects would be clowns and 6-line wrasse who are known aggressors. Separating the gramma into an acclimation box will offer best recovery OR isolate the culprits for a couple of weeks. One way to determine the culprit is at feeding time . . . .
set your cell phone on video mode for about 30 mins and drop a little food and walk away - YOU MUST walk away as they know youre there. Often the aggressor is a bully at feeding time.
Review the video and see who it may be

Thanks for the quick reply! Im gonna cross out the 6 line wrasse as being the agressor because he is the tinniest thing Ive ever seen. He's still a baby. The only one I have seen chasing him is the midas blenny. What about the flashing? Would that be more related to injuries?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the quick reply! Im gonna cross out the 6 line wrasse as being the agressor because he is the tinniest thing Ive ever seen. He's still a baby. The only one I have seen chasing him is the midas blenny. What about the flashing? Would that be more related to injuries?

Flashing often a defense or flukes but would be continuous along with elevated breathing and loss of appetite
The body is bites marks or from scratching but a video will determine if aggression or scratching

 

[WillyWicked]

I'll try to get a clip if he does it again, but it would make sense if its defense. Its the first gramma I've had that didn't hide at all. And all of a sudden he digs a hole and doesnt come out? It would make sense that someone attacked him

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I'll try to get a clip if he does it again, but it would make sense if its defense. Its the first gramma I've had that didn't hide at all. And all of a sudden he digs a hole and doesnt come out? It would make sense that someone attacked him

Grammas are very succeptable to flukes. Only one species will be visible after a dip. The others require a microscope to see.
The fish’s tail fin also has damage, probably from another fish. You may never see it happen. It could be the clowns, Midas even after you ruled the wrasse out for being so small.
Treating flukes in your display can be done with praziquantel, but that’s tough to source in Canada. Hyposalinity also works, but you can’t do that with invertebrates in the tank and all fish would need to be treated.

 

[WillyWicked]

Grammas are very succeptable to flukes. Only one species will be visible after a dip. The others require a microscope to see.
The fish’s tail fin also has damage, probably from another fish. You may never see it happen. It could be the clowns, Midas even after you ruled the wrasse out for being so small.
Treating flukes in your display can be done with praziquantel, but that’s tough to source in Canada. Hyposalinity also works, but you can’t do that with invertebrates in the tank and all fish would need to be treated.

Thanks for the help Jay but yeah, I posted here since I'm in a bit of a pickle with the meds, quarantine tank being too small and inverts in the display tank :/ that hobby is a pain at the start

 

[WillyWicked]

Little update. The gramma still hides and didn't eat. The clowns and the wrasse are in perfect shape. I now see the midas blenny flashing and bites his tail. One chromis is acting weird as well with some white spots appearing on its tail (it aint ich). So I took all the corals, the anemone and the wrasse and put them in my 10G tank. The display tank is going in hypo. ‍ I just hope that the wrasse doesnt have flukes or other parasites since he wouldnt do well in hypo and probably die.

How long should the hypo treatment take for flukes? I know ich is 30 days but dont know with flukes

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Little update. The gramma still hides and didn't eat. The clowns and the wrasse are in perfect shape. I now see the midas blenny flashing and bites his tail. One chromis is acting weird as well with some white spots appearing on its tail (it aint ich). So I took all the corals, the anemone and the wrasse and put them in my 10G tank. The display tank is going in hypo. ‍ I just hope that the wrasse doesnt have flukes or other parasites since he wouldnt do well in hypo and probably die.

How long should the hypo treatment take for flukes? I know ich is 30 days but dont know with flukes

Hypo (at a specific gravity of 1.012) will kill any flukes on the fish in a day or so. Trouble is, some flukes are egg layers and the eggs are resistant to hypo. You need to keep the hypo going long enough that all of the eggs hatch out and the larva are killed by the hypo. This can be around 12 to 16 days, but I prefer to play it safe and go 30 days. Don't forget, you need to bring fish out of hypo slowly, over 4 days, with evenly divided increase in salinity.

 

[WillyWicked]

Alright thanks! Already did hypo in the past for ich, I brought the salinity up by 0.02 max per day

 

[WillyWicked]

Hey @Jay Hemdal !
Just wanted to ask....
I'm at the 10th day of the hypo process, salinity is steady at 1.011. The gramma and clown goby are still flashing a bit, but the midas is flashing like crazy. When I went in front of the tank he flashed like 5 times in a row on its side on a rock. They are all eating well, no agression observed, no heavy breathing, skin/fins look good. They basically look like healthy fish.

Should I be worried? Or could it simply be irritation due to the flukes damage?

I'm just asking because I'm worried to raise the salinity back this weekend and that it could backfire... Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hey @Jay Hemdal !
Just wanted to ask....
I'm at the 10th day of the hypo process, salinity is steady at 1.011. The gramma and clown goby are still flashing a bit, but the midas is flashing like crazy. When I went in front of the tank he flashed like 5 times in a row on its side on a rock. They are all eating well, no agression observed, no heavy breathing, skin/fins look good. They basically look like healthy fish.

Should I be worried? Or could it simply be irritation due to the flukes damage?

I'm just asking because I'm worried to raise the salinity back this weekend and that it could backfire... Thanks!

You might want to hold the hyposalinity for 30 days then. It is probably from residual damage from the flukes, but there isn't really any way to tell for sure, so if the fish are stable and doing well in hypo (aside from the scratching) I'd opt for 30 days.

There is a *slight* risk of brackish water flukes. Those do not respond to hyposalinity, but they are very rare. I only see them in groups of fish that include wild caught brackish water fish. Normal pet store fish don't typically see this issue.

 

[WillyWicked]

You might want to hold the hyposalinity for 30 days then. It is probably from residual damage from the flukes, but there isn't really any way to tell for sure, so if the fish are stable and doing well in hypo (aside from the scratching) I'd opt for 30 days.

There is a *slight* risk of brackish water flukes. Those do not respond to hyposalinity, but they are very rare. I only see them in groups of fish that include wild caught brackish water fish. Normal pet store fish don't typically see this issue.

Ok thanks for the reply and insight, I'll you posted! I just did a freshwater dip on my midas blenny and appart from dead skin, I didn't see anything.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ok thanks for the reply and insight, I'll you posted! I just did a freshwater dip on my midas blenny and appart from dead skin, I didn't see anything.

Most flukes (all but Neobenedenia) are really too small to see with the naked eye after a dip. I use a microscope, but even then, the FW dip distorts the flukes and makes a positive ID difficult.