Dosing NeoPhos

[tbrown]

I have been dosing NeoPhos for a couple of months. Recently I got gifted a Jebao doser and have been using that. I was hand dosing 10 ml daily (2 hand doses of 5 ml) so I setup the Jebao to dose 1 ml 10 times per day. My phosphates are staying very stable from day to day and hour to hour which is great. I'm doing from a 500 ml NeoPhos bottle that I refill from my bigger jug but it seems like the 500ish ml isn't lasting more than a month.

My question: if the bottle cap is off does the NeoPhos evaporate? And if it evaporates wouldn't it leave a more concentrated solution and cause my phosphates to rise?

 

[GARRIGA]

Yes, but you'd probably want a cheap source of calcium carbonate. Maybe quarried limeestone of fairly small size to give more surface area.

Perhaps then placing that in a reactor/canister filter to increase contact and aide in faster absorption?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Perhaps then placing that in a reactor/canister filter to increase contact and aide in faster absorption?

That can work. The capacity won't be high unless it's a pretty high surface area material.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This has more on CaCO3/phosphate:

Aragonite Sand And Phosphate Adsorption

Dan whats your opinion on this data repeat pattern I'm seeing tap water is supposed to be variable/high in phosphates and impurities we have so many uncountable rip clean threads all using tap and I give you my word nobody has ever pm'd me or skewered the thread one time in all these years...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GARRIGA]

This has more on CaCO3/phosphate:

Aragonite Sand And Phosphate Adsorption

Dan whats your opinion on this data repeat pattern I'm seeing tap water is supposed to be variable/high in phosphates and impurities we have so many uncountable rip clean threads all using tap and I give you my word nobody has ever pm'd me or skewered the thread one time in all these years...

www.reef2reef.com

Aragonite sand in a fluidized bed sand filter would therefore theoretically work and those can be made large and external. Plus aide in biological filtration

 

[DeputyDog95]

Folks sometimes do not realize that there is a huge daily throughput of phosphate. Foods typically add 0.02 to 0.3 ppm of phosphate per day, whether it is eaten or not. Thus, changes in sinks will greatly impact whether phosphate is accumulating, and how fast.

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

So, do you think it would be better to raise phosphate through lots of fish and frequent feedings or by adding something like Neophos?

I was reading another thread that was that was discussing the differences between bioavailable to corals phosphate, and just phosphate. I'm paraphrasing, but one of the posters was saying that while you can can have measurable phosphate, that doesn't mean it's available to your corals and seemed to lean towards adding phosphate through more natural means such as what I referenced above with fishload and feeeding.

I have a heavily populated SPS tank that is struggling a bit with color, but the growth is great. It has a high fish load and I feed regularly with automated pellet dumps and frozen by hand. I dose both Neophos and NeoNitro in small amounts, but continuously have very low to non detectable levels on the ICP for both phosphate and phosphorous. In response, I'm upping the feeding by about 25%, culled the cheato to about 10% of what it usually is and turned the fuge light down 50%, and lowered the pump on the skimmer by 20% to see what happens. I only keep the fuge cheato because I think it's great for cultivating pods etc.

Since you can't test for "bio available" phosphate if that's even a thing, does the Neophos add nutrient levels that are comparable to fish food and subsequent fish "poo"? Or are we just pouring in fertilizer that will fuel nuisance algae blooms?

Is there a best practice for raising and maintaining nutrients in a reef tank?

 

[tbrown]

So, do you think it would be better to raise phosphate through lots of fish and frequent feedings or by adding something like Neophos?

I was reading another thread that was that was discussing the differences between bioavailable to corals phosphate, and just phosphate. I'm paraphrasing, but one of the posters was saying that while you can can have measurable phosphate, that doesn't mean it's available to your corals and seemed to lean towards adding phosphate through more natural means such as what I referenced above with fishload and feeeding.

I have a heavily populated SPS tank that is struggling a bit with color, but the growth is great. It has a high fish load and I feed regularly with automated pellet dumps and frozen by hand. I dose both Neophos and NeoNitro in small amounts, but continuously have very low to non detectable levels on the ICP for both phosphate and phosphorous. In response, I'm upping the feeding by about 25%, culled the cheato to about 10% of what it usually is and turned the fuge light down 50%, and lowered the pump on the skimmer by 20% to see what happens. I only keep the fuge cheato because I think it's great for cultivating pods etc.

Since you can't test for "bio available" phosphate if that's even a thing, does the Neophos add nutrient levels that are comparable to fish food and subsequent fish "poo"? Or are we just pouring in fertilizer that will fuel nuisance algae blooms?

Is there a best practice for raising and maintaining nutrients in a reef tank?

There's a Reef Builder's article about different colors in SPS and what helps bring those colors out. If it's specific colors that you're not able to pull out it may not be nutrients.

Guide of SPS coral coloration (make them more vivid, bright) | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

This guide endeavors to assist you with the ever popular SPS coral. This was written by member Shadowramy and it explains specific ideas and strategies in which you can do to affect the color of your…

reefbuilders.com

Not saying it's not nutrients but it could be other things.

 

[DeputyDog95]

There's a Reef Builder's article about different colors in SPS and what helps bring those colors out. If it's specific colors that you're not able to pull out it may not be nutrients.

Guide of SPS coral coloration (make them more vivid, bright) | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

This guide endeavors to assist you with the ever popular SPS coral. This was written by member Shadowramy and it explains specific ideas and strategies in which you can do to affect the color of your…

reefbuilders.com

Not saying it's not nutrients but it could be other things.

I'll look it over, but if it my tank wasn't constantly zero'd out for phosphate, I would definitely be checking other things as well. First and foremost, probably best to get those phosphates into a detectable range, at least on the ICP. I use the low range Hana, and it typically shows 0.05, but that is also about the margin of error for that particular checker...

Appreciate the info!

 

[tbrown]

I'll look it over, but if it my tank wasn't constantly zero'd out for phosphate, I would definitely be checking other things as well. First and foremost, probably best to get those phosphates into a detectable range, at least on the ICP. I use the low range Hana, and it typically shows 0.05, but that is also about the margin of error for that particular checker...

Appreciate the info!

I try to run mine at 0.1 - 0.2. I dose my tank 9 ml of NeoPhos daily (100 gallons of water) and stay at 0.12 - 0.14 fairly consistent. If you're consistently running at 0.05 almost every check dose a little more over the next week or so? I'd say adding an additional 0.01 - 0.02 mg/L daily for 5-7 days until you're reading the levels you want to see and then back off to your normal dosing schedule and see if it stays there.

 

[Troylee]

There's a Reef Builder's article about different colors in SPS and what helps bring those colors out. If it's specific colors that you're not able to pull out it may not be nutrients.

Guide of SPS coral coloration (make them more vivid, bright) | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

This guide endeavors to assist you with the ever popular SPS coral. This was written by member Shadowramy and it explains specific ideas and strategies in which you can do to affect the color of your…

reefbuilders.com

Not saying it's not nutrients but it could be other things.

Fun read but I’m not buying it lol… I have never dosed any of those and color has never been a issue for me.. I think lighting and flow are the major factors! I’m a very firm believer in high flow and high lighting!

 

[tbrown]

Fun read but I’m not buying it lol… I have never dosed any of those and color has never been a issue for me.. I think lighting and flow are the major factors! I’m a very firm believer in high flow and high lighting!

You do frequent water changes or any trace mineral additions? Frequent water changes keeps those where they need to be typically. Plus, you're in Vegas so you've got all those extra lights helping out.

 

[Troylee]

You do frequent water changes or any trace mineral additions? Frequent water changes keeps those where they need to be typically. Plus, you're in Vegas so you've got all those extra lights helping out.

I do water changes off and on… my current tank I’ve been good about them till summer time I can’t keep a batch cool enough so I don’t for a few months… I’ve personally never dosed any trace elements over the years just carbon and bacteria.. but! My current tank I did start using all for reef a few months back and that contains them. But I didn’t have problems years ago and I had a tank I didn’t change water for 2 years.. times have changed so much since then, it’s confusing for even a seasoned reefer like myself lol.. the only common thing from back then to today was high light and high flow for me. Randy thinks those claims on products are non sense also saying it brings out this color or that.

 

[tbrown]

It could very well be. I don't actually dose anything except occasional calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, and iodide. I drop some Reef Plus - which contains trace minerals - and some Phyto/Zoos when I broadcast feed the corals. I dose phosphates daily and I was dosing vinegar but now my nitrates are down to detectable/readable levels so I stopped.

 

[tbrown]

It's still a cool read and something to look at, especially if you're doing an ICP and the numbers are lowish.

 

[Troylee]

It's still a cool read and something to look at, especially if you're doing an ICP and the numbers are lowish.

I come from the days of icp, meant insane clown posse! We didn’t have those tests and I wouldn’t waste my money on them today. Haha!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There's a Reef Builder's article about different colors in SPS and what helps bring those colors out. If it's specific colors that you're not able to pull out it may not be nutrients.

Guide of SPS coral coloration (make them more vivid, bright) | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

This guide endeavors to assist you with the ever popular SPS coral. This was written by member Shadowramy and it explains specific ideas and strategies in which you can do to affect the color of your…

reefbuilders.com

Not saying it's not nutrients but it could be other things.

I have no confidence in the color claims posted there.

 

[DeputyDog95]

I come from the days of icp, meant insane clown posse! We didn’t have those tests and I wouldn’t waste my money on them today. Haha!

Are you a Juggalo? LoL

I think it's nearly impossible to keep a thriving SPS tank for years on end without ICP testing. At least a few times a year.

Some things are hard to test for, some you simply can't test for.

I recently found out my Strontium and Potassium were way low. And while I test the main three daily with a Trident and do phosphate and nitrate every couple of weeks manually, this helped me catch a problem before things went really sideways since I rarely test for K and never test for Strontium.

ICP is certainly not a requirement, but likely a best practice now that's widely available and relatively inexpensive.

 

[Troylee]

Are you a Juggalo? LoL

I think it's nearly impossible to keep a thriving SPS tank for years on end without ICP testing. At least a few times a year.

Some things are hard to test for, some you simply can't test for.

I recently found out my Strontium and Potassium were way low. And while I test the main three daily with a Trident and do phosphate and nitrate every couple of weeks manually, this helped me catch a problem before things went really sideways since I rarely test for K and never test for Strontium.

ICP is certainly not a requirement, but likely a best practice now that's widely available and relatively inexpensive.

I can see there purpose but there’s been thread after saying there not accurate… a regular water change schedule will keep all your trace elements in line without testing for plenty of years.. there is some super old sps reefs around that started way before icp… I have a couple of the old ones local to me and they don’t even test besides alk lol.. and nah no juggalo here!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I recently found out my Strontium and Potassium were way low. And while I test the main three daily with a Trident and do phosphate and nitrate every couple of weeks manually, this helped me catch a problem before things went really sideways since I rarely test for K and never test for Strontium.

ICP is certainly not a requirement, but likely a best practice now that's widely available and relatively inexpensive.

I would argue the strontium was not useful, but I know some folks believe otherwise.

 

[DeputyDog95]

I can see there purpose but there’s been thread after saying there not accurate… a regular water change schedule will keep all your trace elements in line without testing for plenty of years.. there is some super old sps reefs around that started way before icp… I have a couple of the old ones local to me and they don’t even test besides alk lol.. and nah no juggalo here!

I guess it depends on the tank and the icp equipment. No two are the same.

My ICP provider also happens to be local and a friend of mine. I've been in the lab, I know how the equipment is maintained, and I know the calibration procedures. I'm confident the results are as good as it gets for what it is. Check out reef labs if you have any interest.

As far as tanks, I have a 140g (net) system and do a 10 percent water changes every other week. I dose 400ml per day of BRS Alk and Ca and am using the 380ml of tropic marin trace elements per gallon (above the typical max dosage 330ml), 6ml per day of K, and 12 ml per day of magnesium and still come up short of many trace elements (including strontium) forcing me to dose additional specific elements to keep them in range.

Granted, I have a pile of sps, but water changes wouldn't even come close to keeping up the demands in my particular tank.

Truth be told, to do it over again, I would pick 7 or 8 really really nice pieces and keep them the no bigger than 8 inches. I have too much coral and it's growing too fast at an average pH of 8.3. It would be way more manageable and consume a lot less of everything.