Dosing No3 and Po4????

[d_adler]

First some backstory on the tank
The tank has been up and running for just over a year and at first the acros were growing and everything was doing great but for about 2 months now one by one the acros have been fading away. They first stop showing polyp extension then slowly fade in color days later to eventually have the skin just falls off. Im thinking it could be that my nutrients are just too low.

I took the refugium and skimmer off line last night and fed a second time with pellets yesterday in attempt to raise the nutrients over the next few days. My train of thought is that my refugium may be functioning too well and reducing my nutrients too low. i plan on turning the skimmer back on later today but leaving the fuge off until i start seeing some nutrients.


the tank is just shy of 80 gallon water volume.
light: 4 bulb ati with 6 nanobox arrays
flow: 2 mp10s
skimmer: vertex 180i skimmer
refugium: kessil h380 with chaeto. the kessil h380 runs from 11pm-11am
feeding regiment: i feed 1/2 a cube of frozen per day and a auto feeder feeds pellets once a day.


current tank parameters:
salinity: 33
ph: 7.7-8
alkalinity 8
calcium: 470
magnesium: na
no3:0
po4:0
(im testing with salifert and hanana)



questions i need answered.....

1. if i use spectracide stump remover. at what rate should i use it? do you dilute it in rodi water? if so at what ratio?
2. can i raise po4 and no3 at the same time? could i dose spectracide and something like Seachem Flourish Phosphorus at the same time or should i wait in between dosing the 2? how does 1 effect the other?
3. what should be my primary goal? raising my po4 first or raising my no3?

 

[Tautog]

I had the same issue, and just increased feeding, high nitrates aren’t that bad, but high Po4’s are
I don’t remember the ratio, but the Bayer won’t hurt your corals, but this isn’t a pest issue.
And yes, between your refuge and skimmer, your system may be running too clean. I did also, but since feeding more often, feeding less more often, and letting the system get dirty, has improved coral growth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Which Hanna for phosphate?

Regardless of the source of sodium or potassium nitrate (I prefer food grade over Spectracide), you can use this calculator for dosing:

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

I'd dose 2 ppm nitrate and 0.01-0.02 ppm phosphate per day for a few days and track the levels. I would raise both at the same time to prevent one from being driven even lower.

 

[d_adler]

I would have to check which hanana checker.

Ok so i would dose potassium nitrate to increase po4. Would this work?
The Science Company, NC-8794, Potassium Nitrate, (Saltpeter), Food Grade, 100g https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDGNHZL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_6fEzAbGDGA5WK

What would you recommend for no3?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would have to check which hanana checker.
?

The reason I ask is because the 713 cannot read low enough to know if phosphate is too low, while the 736 can.

"Ok so i would dose potassium nitrate to increase po4. Would this work? "

I assume you mean to boost nitrate? I'd aim to dose 2 ppm per day.

That source is fine, but long term you may want to be sure potassium isn't rising too much.

 

[d_adler]

The reason I ask is because the 713 cannot read low enough to know if phosphate is too low, while the 736 can.

"Ok so i would dose potassium nitrate to increase po4. Would this work? "

I assume you mean to boost nitrate? I'd aim to dose 2 ppm per day.

That source is fine, but long term you may want to be sure potassium isn't rising too much.

As you can see I’m still trying to understand this the best I can lol

Ok so i picked up a bottle of spectracide (potassium nitrate) to use right away and will order food grade as soon as I am able.

I checked and it is a 713. That being said should I aim to raise only nitrates as of now and not worry about my phosphates until I get a better test of it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As you can see I’m still trying to understand this the best I can lol

Ok so i picked up a bottle of spectracide (potassium nitrate) to use right away and will order food grade as soon as I am able.

I checked and it is a 713. That being said should I aim to raise only nitrates as of now and not worry about my phosphates until I get a better test of it?

There's a risk either way in terms of the phosphate, but I'd probably dose it too since the risk of too high is less than too low, IMO.

 

[d_adler]

There's a risk either way in terms of the phosphate, but I'd probably dose it too since the risk of too high is less than too low, IMO.

Ok just to clarify...

I should get food grade sodium nitrate as opposed to potassium nitrate.

Is there a better source of phosphorus than brightwell / seachem or would those be adequate?

Last but not least when dosing by hand, can I dose simultaneously or should I wait a length of time in between the 2?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok just to clarify...

I should get food grade sodium nitrate as opposed to potassium nitrate.

Is there a better source of phosphorus than brightwell / seachem or would those be adequate?

Last but not least when dosing by hand, can I dose simultaneously or should I wait a length of time in between the 2?

Potassium nitrate is OK, but the concern is rising potassium, especially if you are not doing water changes. Potassium never depleted in my tank, and if I added 1 or 2 ppm of potassium per day, it would rise over time.

The Brightwell and Seachem products are probably OK. They say nothing about purity, so it depends on how much you trust them.

No need to wait any time between dosing nitrate and phosphate.

 

[Tokash23]

The Brightwell and Seachem products are probably OK. They say nothing about purity, so it depends on how much you trust them.

No need to wait any time between dosing nitrate and phosphate.[/QUOTE]
Do you recommend something better for phosphate dosing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you recommend something better for phosphate dosing?

Food grade sodium or potassium phosphate. there are tons of brands around:

https://www.amazon.com/TriSodium-Phosphate-Na3PO4-Ultra-Pure-powder/dp/B00ILIO85Q

 

[Tokash23]

Food grade sodium or potassium phosphate. there are tons of brands around:

https://www.amazon.com/TriSodium-Phosphate-Na3PO4-Ultra-Pure-powder/dp/B00ILIO85Q

Thanks

 

[lbacha]

Potassium nitrate is OK, but the concern is rising potassium, especially if you are not doing water changes. Potassium never depleted in my tank, and if I added 1 or 2 ppm of potassium per day, it would rise over time.

The Brightwell and Seachem products are probably OK. They say nothing about purity, so it depends on how much you trust them.

No need to wait any time between dosing nitrate and phosphate.

Hello Randy

Do you have cheato in your tank? I'm only asking as I would think it would uptake some of the potassium and reduce the levels. I use potassium nitrate and mono potassium Phosphate along with potassium sulfate as a macro nutrient for my freshwater tanks as potassium is key for the success of non algae freshwater plants. I also do large water changes weekly to offset the levels of these possibly not being balanced (keeps me from having to test on a regular basis). I've considered mixing up a solution of potassium nitrate and potassium Phosphate and slowly dosing my tank with it since my nitrates and phosphates are lower than I would like due to cheato and Xenia in my fuge. I don't have a Potassium test kit so it is my only concern if I do this as big 50% waterchanges to reset the levels like I do with my freshwater tank is out of the question on my reef tank.

I love how this aspect of the hobby ties the freshwater and reef aspects of the hobby together

Len

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Randy

Do you have cheato in your tank? I'm only asking as I would think it would uptake some of the potassium and reduce the levels. I use potassium nitrate and mono potassium Phosphate along with potassium sulfate as a macro nutrient for my freshwater tanks as potassium is key for the success of non algae freshwater plants. I also do large water changes weekly to offset the levels of these possibly not being balanced (keeps me from having to test on a regular basis). I've considered mixing up a solution of potassium nitrate and potassium Phosphate and slowly dosing my tank with it since my nitrates and phosphates are lower than I would like due to cheato and Xenia in my fuge. I don't have a Potassium test kit so it is my only concern if I do this as big 50% waterchanges to reset the levels like I do with my freshwater tank is out of the question on my reef tank.

I love how this aspect of the hobby ties the freshwater and reef aspects of the hobby together

Len

I grew both macroalgae (Caulerpa racemosa) and bacteria via a lot of organic carbon dosing.

FWIW, if you are not dosing N and P, then I think it is not apparent why potassium would ever deplete. Yes, growing organisms take it up, but foods that are bringing in the N and P also contain it. Somehow, one is making the case the the creatures living in the tank have more potassium per unit of N and P than do the creatures that make up the foods supplied.

One possibility is that freezing foods breaks open cells, and much of the potassium (which is loose inside cells) gets washed away if one washes the foods later when they thaw. IMO, this is a strong reason to not rinse frozen foods, which I never did.

FWIW, here's my potassium result and discussion when i had a Triton test:

http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Potassium (K). 397.1 ppm Many people are worried about potassium in their aquaria. About 4 ½ years ago, not long after I started using organic carbon dosing, I decided I should test to see if potassium was depleted in my aquarium. I compared my tank water to a true natural seawater sample and found about the same level in the standard as in my aquarium using a commercial test kit. The Triton result confirms that earlier conclusion: my aquarium is not becoming depleted in potassium despite skimming, growing macroalgae, and organic carbon dosing. Presumably, the foods and water changes are adequate to maintain the potassium level.

 

[Reeftang]

First some backstory on the tank
The tank has been up and running for just over a year and at first the acros were growing and everything was doing great but for about 2 months now one by one the acros have been fading away. They first stop showing polyp extension then slowly fade in color days later to eventually have the skin just falls off. Im thinking it could be that my nutrients are just too low.

I took the refugium and skimmer off line last night and fed a second time with pellets yesterday in attempt to raise the nutrients over the next few days. My train of thought is that my refugium may be functioning too well and reducing my nutrients too low. i plan on turning the skimmer back on later today but leaving the fuge off until i start seeing some nutrients.


the tank is just shy of 80 gallon water volume.
light: 4 bulb ati with 6 nanobox arrays
flow: 2 mp10s
skimmer: vertex 180i skimmer
refugium: kessil h380 with chaeto. the kessil h380 runs from 11pm-11am
feeding regiment: i feed 1/2 a cube of frozen per day and a auto feeder feeds pellets once a day.


current tank parameters:
salinity: 33
ph: 7.7-8
alkalinity 8
calcium: 470
magnesium: na
no3:0
po4:0
(im testing with salifert and hanana)



questions i need answered.....

1. if i use spectracide stump remover. at what rate should i use it? do you dilute it in rodi water? if so at what ratio?
2. can i raise po4 and no3 at the same time? could i dose spectracide and something like Seachem Flourish Phosphorus at the same time or should i wait in between dosing the 2? how does 1 effect the other?
3. what should be my primary goal? raising my po4 first or raising my no3?

ANY UPDATE?

 

[d_adler]

ANY UPDATE?

So I went ahead and started dosing both yesterday. I picked up some spectracide and flourish phosphorus because they were readily available but will be ordering food grade sodium phosphate and sodium nitrate off Amazon soon enough. I used the calculators provided and made a concentrated dose of 17 grams of potassium nitrate in 80ml of water. What i didn’t know is if the potassium nitrate is supposed to completely dissolve in the water or leave sediment almost like kalk. I had a small amount of sediment on the bottom of the jar even after waiting quite some time.

I dosed 4 ml by hand of the nitrate mixture and 1 ml of the flourish. I’ll be dosing by hand for the next few days testing every other day to see what kind of results I get.

I turned my skimmer back on last night and will be turning the h380 refugium on tonight for 8 hours instead of the usual 12.

Now the waiting game begins.....

 

[lbacha]

So I started dosing some Phosphate and nitrate into my tank based on 0ppm readings for both.

I currently have no fish so no input of nutrients tht way but I do add reef roids and reef chili twice a day as well as reef energy twice a day. I also add algae wafers for my snails and hermits to help boost nutrients and still nothing. My skimmer cup takes a month to fill but my cheato and Xenia are growing like crazy so I know the tank is producing nutrients it just processes them so fast that they are undetectable (by the way I'm using a Hanna ultra low Phosphate checker and a nyos nitrate kit)

I'm dosing the nutrients in the morning when the fuge is off in hopes that the coral will be able to use it before it is consumed.

I'm planning on dosing until I get Phosphate and nitrates to a high level one morning and then test the levels throughout the day and see what the consumption rate is through out the day. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea let me know, my only concern is adding too much Pottasium as the nutrients I'm using are potassium nitrate and mono potassium phosphate. I don't really want to get a potassium test kit but I will if it is necessary

 

[lbacha]

Interesting development since I started dosing no3 and po4. I've been struggling to keep my ph above 8 ever since my cycle ended and my nutrients have been 0. It would creep slightly over 8 at night when the fuge lights were on but drop slightly below with them off. Now that I'm dosing no3 and po4 my ph is currently at 8.25. I'm attributing this to my cheato using the nutrients as fast as I can add them to the water and in turn using up the excess CO2 in the water. When my nutrients were 0 the cheato wasn't growing therefore CO2 was building up and lowering my ph.

 

[DBryan]

Randy are nitrate and phosphate like alk. and calcium when you raise one you lower the other one?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy are nitrate and phosphate like alk. and calcium when you raise one you lower the other one?

Not really. You can raise either or both independently of each other.

The only relationship is that if one is in very short supply, it might limit the ability or organisms to grow and consume the other.