Dosing Vinegar

[Centurio]

Randy --
When reading through the posts and the "chart" recommendations that you link too I notice that you dose much higher than even the top amount on the chart. Curious about the reasoning behind that. Is there a point of diminishing returns? Any documentation for the "right" amount to dose or is it just guesswork based on observation of conditions in the tank? Is there any reason to ramp up dosing as slowly as the chart indicates -- or even a slow ramp up at all?

 

[JaimeAdams]

The reason for the slow ramp up is to avoid bacterial blooms. The carbon dosing feeds heterotrophic bacteria in the water column. Ramping up the amount gives these bacteria time to increase their populations. As far as the max amount goes it is based off of how much you need to dose to inures the population large enough to deal with your nutrient issues. I used to dose a ton when I used this method.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy --
When reading through the posts and the "chart" recommendations that you link too I notice that you dose much higher than even the top amount on the chart. Curious about the reasoning behind that. Is there a point of diminishing returns? Any documentation for the "right" amount to dose or is it just guesswork based on observation of conditions in the tank? Is there any reason to ramp up dosing as slowly as the chart indicates -- or even a slow ramp up at all?

I didn’t devise the chart and often state I don’t agree with it when linking the vinegar article. IMO it ramps up excessively slowly and the top end doesn’t make sense to me at different tank sizes. Everyone should determined optimal doses for their tanks by trial and error.

 

[Centurio]

I didn’t devise the chart and often state I don’t agree with it when linking the vinegar article. IMO it ramps up excessively slowly and the top end doesn’t make sense to me at different tank sizes. Everyone should determined optimal doses for their tanks by trial and error.

In determining optimal dose what so you look for? Is it simply the reduction of nuisance algae mostly noted by only having to remove a film of bacteria from the glass and/or arriving at a test number we are trying to get too? Is there a danger in overdosing the tank beyond too much of a reduction in Nitrates?

 

[Centurio]

Also, can you give some possible "rule of thumb" estimates of what we should be dosing in a 25, 50, 100 or 150 gallon "normal" system. And by normal I mean the usual system which has a few too many fish and is fed just a bit too much. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tested lots of different doses on my system, by tank appearance only, from about 30 mL per day to more than 400 mL per day 9120 display plus large sumps and refugia, maybe 250-300 gallons water volume). At the high end, the water got cloudy and some organisms didn't look good, and caulerpa in the display tank seemed to grow faster (maybe it can take up acetate at high doses).

Nitrate tracking would be another good option.

 

[Centurio]

Thank you. You are still dosing vinegar as well, correct? And for how long?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you. You are still dosing vinegar as well, correct? And for how long?

I dosed it for a few years until I took the tank down (after it was up for 20 years), and likely would do it again if I restart one.

 

[arcos]

Is this the current guide that most are using? And this is for the Vinegar Dosing correct?

Also this is all in ML correct ? http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

 

[Centurio]

I dosed it for a few years until I took the tank down (after it was up for 20 years), and likely would do it again if I restart one.

Thank you, sir.

 

[cobast]

Hey Randy, further to your comment "I tested lots of different doses on my system, by tank appearance only, from about 30 mL per day to more than 400 mL per day". I started using that vinegar dosing table 3 months ago and my nitrates are now down to around 2 which I'm happy with. BUT, I have found I am overdosing at 120ml per day on a 72 US gal system with minimal side affects other than the whitish bacterial growth which is easy to remove.
My mistake was on seeing that the first week dosing rate was readily able to be extrapolated for quantities (double the gals = double the dose) I created a spreadsheet on that principal. That extrapolation was not the case from week 2 in the chart, which I missed. So I'm dosing 120 ml per day for 72 gals but should only be dosing around 65. I'm going to start winding back the dosage rate and watch what happens to my parameters and softies.
As you suggested elsewhere Randy, I found the chart ramps up dosing too slowly and I think vinegar appears to be innocuous even with 'overdosing'.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, further to your comment "I tested lots of different doses on my system, by tank appearance only, from about 30 mL per day to more than 400 mL per day". I started using that vinegar dosing table 3 months ago and my nitrates are now down to around 2 which I'm happy with. BUT, I have found I am overdosing at 120ml per day on a 72 US gal system with minimal side affects other than the whitish bacterial growth which is easy to remove.
My mistake was on seeing that the first week dosing rate was readily able to be extrapolated for quantities (double the gals = double the dose) I created a spreadsheet on that principal. That extrapolation was not the case from week 2 in the chart, which I missed. So I'm dosing 120 ml per day for 72 gals but should only be dosing around 65. I'm going to start winding back the dosage rate and watch what happens to my parameters and softies.
As you suggested elsewhere Randy, I found the chart ramps up dosing too slowly and I think vinegar appears to be innocuous even with 'overdosing'.

FWIW, I didn't make that table and I'm not convinced it has much meaning for the reasons you cite relating to tank size and also the dosing ramp up schedule (which seems excessively slow to me).

 

[brendan1495]

Been dosing vinegar using a dosing pump for 2 weeks with no reduction in nitrate, should I have seen any improvement or am I just being impatient. Used a dosing pump and volumes from the charts. Cheers

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Been dosing vinegar using a dosing pump for 2 weeks with no reduction in nitrate, should I have seen any improvement or am I just being impatient. Used a dosing pump and volumes from the charts. Cheers

What is the nitrate level?

How much vinegar into what total volume?

 

[brendan1495]

What is the nitrate level?

How much vinegar into what total volume?

Hi Nitrate is at 25.5, tank is 60 US Gallon. dosing 12ml a day for first 7 days then uped it to 25 for the last 7 days was going to up it to 40ml a day from Monday, using a dosing pump so doses spread out through the day. Cheers Brendan

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While I think that nitrate is fine as is, dosing vinegar is also a fine plan. It sometimes takes a fair while to see it decline. If I wanted it lower, I’d consider upping the dose, but just waiting longer at 25 also seems good to me.

 

[brendan1495]

While I think that nitrate is fine as is, dosing vinegar is also a fine plan. It sometimes takes a fair while to see it decline. If I wanted it lower, I’d consider upping the dose, but just waiting longer at 25 also seems good to me.

Thanks a lot for your advice, I think I am probably just being impatient, will up the dosage on Monday and just monitor once a week. Cheers Brendan

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You’re welcome.

Let us know how things work out!

 

[brendan1495]

You’re welcome.

Let us know how things work out!

Will Do, Cheers

 

[Dan_P]

Hi Nitrate is at 25.5, tank is 60 US Gallon. dosing 12ml a day for first 7 days then uped it to 25 for the last 7 days was going to up it to 40ml a day from Monday, using a dosing pump so doses spread out through the day. Cheers Brendan

A 1 mL dose of vinegar can reduce nitrate about 1 ppm, or 60 mL daily dose for your system. I suspect you are using a high range Hanna Checker and might not have detected the initial small change associated what the heck a 12 mL dose. Ditto the 25 mL dose. As the dose nears 60 mL, you should see a reduction in nitrate. There is a possibility that your system does not experience a high bacteria growth with dosing. This will result in slow or no observable nitrate reduction. In some systems rapid bacteria growth does happen resulting in a strong nitrate reduction, cloudy water and slime on surfaces. Switching carbon source might not help. Even if the system exhibits strong nitrate reduction with vinegar dosing, the rate of nitrate reduction can slow or stop before the nitrate reduction target is reached.